school bus reds not taken seriously?

 

Today I observed on City Line Ave. in Phila.

School bus stopped to pick up passengers, yellow lights, then red.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5 cars simply went right by in the left lane.

The sixth car, stopped, with its front bumper lined up with the school bus.

I can't help but wonder if its ignorance, or totally wilful.

Because a red light bus conviction is a mandatory suspension in PA.

I have seen online, where with smartphone video, police have tracked down drivers. Which makes me wonder, how likely is it, that people are not aware of the mandatory license suspension? To me, risk v. reward is not there, let alone the safety issue, when school bus reds are run.

Then, at another intersection, a school bus ran a red light crossing our paths. What a free for all. But I do admit, school buses don't run lights left and right, that's more the exception.

Red

Where I live, the school bus driver will or can report a red light runner to the police and the driver will get fined!

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT Retired now, Nuvi 2797LMT, SmartDrive 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Bad MOJO

I see this every now and then also.

I now have a Dashcam (front & rear) that I will download from the next time I see this and will send it to the appropriate PD. Too bad I don't have the GPS module to go with it.

--
Metricman Nuvi 660, GTM-20 Traffic Receiver Nuvi 3597 GTM-60 Traffic Receiver Williamsburg, VA

I agree

Melaqueman wrote:

Where I live, the school bus driver will or can report a red light runner to the police and the driver will get fined!

School bus drivers here in PA often take smartphone video of violations but the police are reluctant to issue citations. At least one ticket that I'm aware of was thrown out by a judge because the bus driver was not an officer of the court.

I agree with Johnnatash4 though. Violations here in PA are becoming more and more frequent. Stricter law enforcement needs to be applied before a tragedy occurs.

Kids can be unpredictable!

Here in Alabama the law requires a driver to stop before reaching any stopped school or church bus displaying a visual signal in the form of two alternately flashing red lights located at the same level and mounted as high and as widely spaced laterally as practicable on the front and rear of the bus. The law here also provides that a driver of any vehicle failing to stop for a school or church bus may be reported by either a peace officer or the driver of a school bus. (A driver no longer has to stop for a stopped school or church bus on the opposite side of a 4 lane, divided highway.)

I have not witnessed anyone pass a stopped school bus in many, many years. I think it is mostly a matter of courtesy, not a matter strict enforcement. Most folks here also pull off to the side of the road and stop when meeting a funeral procession.

--
Garmin nüvi 3597LMTHD, 3760 LMT, & 255LMT, - "Those who wish for fairness without first protecting freedom will end up with neither freedom nor fairness." - Milton Friedman

I would think that many items would be neccasary

bdhsfz6 wrote:
Melaqueman wrote:

Where I live, the school bus driver will or can report a red light runner to the police and the driver will get fined!

School bus drivers here in PA often take smartphone video of violations but the police are reluctant to issue citations. At least one ticket that I'm aware of was thrown out by a judge because the bus driver was not an officer of the court.

I agree with Johnnatash4 though. Violations here in PA are becoming more and more frequent. Stricter law enforcement needs to be applied before a tragedy occurs.

Bus Driver would need Driver recognition, Vehicle Tags, proof of his lighting sequence, Date/Time. I could see PD sending a warning letter, but ticket would be easy to take apart before Judge

Spike-strips?

Maybe when the red comes on, spike-strips would automatically deploy and then retract when the driver turns off the red flashers. I can hear the lawyers sharpening their pencils now.

With the availability of low cost, high image quality cameras, why aren't the busses equipped with these cameras that are enabled whenever the reds are flashing and vehicle motion triggers a pic a lot like these red light cameras work? Then the judge can't complain the bus driver wasn't handsfree.

--
"There's no substitute for local knowledge" nüvi 750, nüvi 3597

Many agencies are equipping

Many agencies are equipping their buses with "cross arm cameras". They are mounted on the side of the bus, just below the driver, and are activated when the "red lights" are activated. They stand up very well in court, as the get video of the vehicle, license, and driver. They are connected to the bus's GPS and video recording system.

These cameral have been available since at least 2012, that I know of. Had one on my bus, and generated 10 tickets, that I know of.

They are an expense that a lot of systems can't afford, yet.

--
Frank Nuvi 3597LMT 37.322760, -79.511267

GPS

metricman wrote:

Too bad I don't have the GPS module to go with it.

If you have an A118C or A119 you can get a GPS module on eBay for under $ 10.00 delivered to you. I have one.

But a special viewer is required. "Registrator" is the name.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT Retired now, Nuvi 2797LMT, SmartDrive 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

I believe that

phranc wrote:

Many agencies are equipping their buses with "cross arm cameras". They are mounted on the side of the bus, just below the driver, and are activated when the "red lights" are activated. They stand up very well in court, as the get video of the vehicle, license, and driver. They are connected to the bus's GPS and video recording system.

These cameral have been available since at least 2012, that I know of. Had one on my bus, and generated 10 tickets, that I know of.

They are an expense that a lot of systems can't afford, yet.

These do exist in PA, but legislation is needed to use them. Probably the technology co. is willing to equip buses at little to no cost to get a piece of the fine revenue. I know that many will again claim that this is a money grab, but I really and sincerely do not believe that is the case. If people would stop running the buses' reds, that is good enough. We'd all be happy. Nobody wants your money, they want you to stop.

But day in, day out, people will not. And again, I really don't think most people are knowing of the mandatory license suspension if caught. So let's just say it's your bad luck that PD was sitting there, and he can't catch all 6 people, so he catches the car whose front bumper lined up with the bus', or the last car that blew the reds. Now, you will likely be suspended, and have difficulty getting to work. Worth it?

Virginia requires stopping

Virginia requires stopping 10' away but as far as I know, the emphasis is on ones that do not stop. I know that I've seen drivers, who for whatever reason, don't get stopped until they are beside the bus. What I see is that, the ones going in the same direction, do stop, even if beside you. The ones going in the opposite direction, once they get past the stop sign, they take off and run.

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Frank Nuvi 3597LMT 37.322760, -79.511267

Rarely

Rarely see this in my area.
Others, including me , will give a horn.

Maybe the tickets need to be higher

phranc wrote:

...
They are an expense that a lot of systems can't afford, yet.

In Wichita Falls, TX the fine is $1,200. We don't see many locals passing a stopped school bus. Wouldn't 1 ticket like that pay for the camera?

--
"There's no substitute for local knowledge" nüvi 750, nüvi 3597

Also in Pennsylvania ...

I drive for a living, a triaxle dump truck, (one of our fleet can be seen here: https://s7.postimg.cc/eam3iem0r/Image1.jpg).

I'm in and around Philadelphia all day, as a result I see a lot of stupid driving.

On the flip side, I'm in the truck on Lindbergh Blvd in Southwest Philly, a wide but one lane in each direction road. An empty School District of Philadelphia school bus passed me on the right in an active school zone with the 15mph signs flashing, I was going around 20.

Move to the nearby western suburbs, twice I have seen loaded William Penn School buses go around down RR crossing gates and once saw one stop on the tracks in traffic, red light ahead, while waiting for the green the RR crossing gate comes down on the bus, who now drives onto the sidewalk to avoid being hit by a train.

Back to Philly, on I-95 south two "Durham Services" school buses, loaded, pass me like I'm standing still, speed limit 55, I was doing 55-60 myself.

Yes, each time I called the district/company involved.

These are but a handful of stupid moves by school buses I see every day. The only drivers worse than the buses are taxi-cab drivers who drive like they are the only vehicle on the road.

.

--
. Nuvi 2689, two Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N, Garmin, built into my Jeep. .

Only on a 2 lane road

In Illinois, you don't stop for a school bus on a 4 lane road. Many drivers will tie up traffic by stopping in the opposite direction on a four lane road.

Many drivers stop when an emergency vehicle is traveling in the opposite direction. Our law says YIELD the right of way. That does not mean stop.

--
Zumo 550 & Zumo 665 My alarm clock is sunshine on chrome.

Not where I live in Texas.

Not where I live in Texas. Many people apparently think you can't EVER pass a school bus, regardless of whether the STOP lights (and sign) are on or off. At least it seems that way in my neighborhood. They also STOP when there is a divided median, again when they are not required to.

This is a the FIREFIGHTING

This is a the FIREFIGHTING attitude that prevails in EVERYTHING.
This is how people get promoted, by putting out fires.
It is like no one ever heard of FIRE PREVENTION. And of course no one ever gets promoted because they prevented a fire from starting.

I have a 60 year work history to prove that.

So what is needed is to get a child killed by one of these violators. THEN we can talk about enforcing the laws. At least then someone can get promoted for FIXING the problem.

I have sent the following to my local ABC, NBC, CBS stations - feel free to send it to your local stations:
========
Given the apparent ignorance of a lot of drivers it might be a great public service to remind them of proper and lawful driving procedures:
This can be done a number of ways - with quick video ad spots - to show proper left/right turns, with a traffic spot during news and weather (especially the ones RE Headlights since it is weather related - dusk and rain)
Here a a few of my pet peeves:

Stopped school bus - When and where to stop - NOT on roads with divider, interstate, etc.
Littering - can be reported by other drivers to SWAT-A-LITTERBUG - $200. fine to clean up your mess.
Intersection traffic lights - if over line when yellow, proceed - you are IN the intersection, get out! if you crossed the line when light was red, you have a violation.
Driving on 4 lane roads - keep to right except to pass or turn left - ESPECIALLY if you feel the need to drive slower than the speed limit.
Emergency vehicles - just get out of their way however you can - move over or slow down if passing - it does not require that you stop.
Making proper right & left hand turns on 4 lane roads - turn right from right lane to right lane, turn left from left lane to left lane
Making left turns from left turn lane - proceed into intersection and wait for clearance - turn even if light turns red.
Burning HEADLIGHTS - DO NOT DRIVE WITH PARKING LIGHTS - turn headlights on at DUSK and when it is raining. Better yet, leave them on at all times. The law says HEADLIGHTS - parking lights are not for driving!!
School Zones - reduce speed

Basic rule: stay out of the way of other drivers - especially the crazy ones.

Cary, NC

man

soberbyker wrote:

I drive for a living, a triaxle dump truck, (one of our fleet can be seen here: https://s7.postimg.cc/eam3iem0r/Image1.jpg).

I'm in and around Philadelphia all day, as a result I see a lot of stupid driving.

On the flip side, I'm in the truck on Lindbergh Blvd in Southwest Philly, a wide but one lane in each direction road. An empty School District of Philadelphia school bus passed me on the right in an active school zone with the 15mph signs flashing, I was going around 20.

Move to the nearby western suburbs, twice I have seen loaded William Penn School buses go around down RR crossing gates and once saw one stop on the tracks in traffic, red light ahead, while waiting for the green the RR crossing gate comes down on the bus, who now drives onto the sidewalk to avoid being hit by a train.

Back to Philly, on I-95 south two "Durham Services" school buses, loaded, pass me like I'm standing still, speed limit 55, I was doing 55-60 myself.

Yes, each time I called the district/company involved.

These are but a handful of stupid moves by school buses I see every day. The only drivers worse than the buses are taxi-cab drivers who drive like they are the only vehicle on the road.

.

So you're totally familiar with the areas I mention....imagine Island Ave., Lindbergh and 84th sts. driving down here. All crazy lawless driving like it's the 1980's. Hence the cams at Lindbergh and Island, Bartram and Island.

My wife used to work in that plaza by Bartram--the company policy is that NOBODY IS ALLOWED TO GO TO THEIR CAR, WITHOUT BEING ACCOMPANIED BY ANOTHER PERSON. Groups of 3 or more are recommended. If you disregard the policy, you could be terminated--I guess by your employer, and by someone in the parking lot. Imagine, you can't walk 90 sec from your office, to the Shop Rite, in the interest of your personal safety. I told her you need to relocate.

But I really do believe, that many don't know about the mandatory suspension, or they wouldn't chance it in PA...

different

dave817 wrote:

In Illinois, you don't stop for a school bus on a 4 lane road. Many drivers will tie up traffic by stopping in the opposite direction on a four lane road.

Many drivers stop when an emergency vehicle is traveling in the opposite direction. Our law says YIELD the right of way. That does not mean stop.

The school bus part is interesting, it's as if IL has calculated risk vs. reward and made a determination that if there are at least 2 lanes each way, opposite side does not stop.

This then can explain. Say a person moves from Chicago to PHILA. They keep driving on City Line Ave. going south, bus is facing north, and said person blows right through the red lights that I described. When the Lower Merion PD says buddy, here's your violation, wth do you think you're doing, I'll see you in court and you'll have a mandatory suspension. They would be able to honestly say that where I come from, I don't have to stop, I did not know I had to stop in PA going the opposite direction. I wonder if a judge would be forgiving, or proceed with the suspension. In PA the highway would need to be divided or have some sort of physical barrier, or the opposing side stops.

Probably not going to give

Probably not going to give you a break. It's your responsibility to know such things as school bus laws. Every state I have ever crossed into have had signs at the border specifically detailing school bus laws.

A fellow charter bus driver got a ticket in Alabama on 4 lane divided highway, before AL changed their law about decided highways. Judge told him tough sh#t, you should have checked the laws before driving in MY state.

--
Frank Nuvi 3597LMT 37.322760, -79.511267

I'm seen red

I don't know how traffic enforcement is in PA nowadays, in Philly back in my time there used to be very rigorously enforced, it has been a long time since I moved from there to Sunny Florida and I can tell you in Florida traffic violations are lately SELDOM ticketed.

In the last decade I've seen a decline in Police presence in Tampa, Miami and Orlando area, in Tampa sometimes I go days without seen a Police cruiser, is that the same in the area of the country you live?

--
Garmin 38 - Magellan Gold - Garmin Yellow eTrex - Nuvi 260 - Nuvi 2460LMT - Google Nexus 7 - Toyota Entune NAV

I'm not so sure

phranc wrote:

...It's your responsibility to know such things as school bus laws. Every state I have ever crossed into have had signs at the border specifically detailing school bus laws...

I live in Ohio and we don't have the school bus laws posted at every border road crossing. I dare say we don't have the school bus laws posted at ANY border road crossing. If you think about it, the signs would have to be pretty big and pretty readable if your state wanted to educate every out-of-state driver as they entered.
And by the way, I don't disagree that it's the driver's responsibility to know the local traffic laws.

Phil

--
Phil in Mentor, Ohio -- Garmin Nuvi 1450

More on topic ...

OK I had my rant above on the flip side, now for this on topic, a woman in Ohio drives on the sidewalk to get past a school bus with flashing reds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UTM40K53K8

and a follow up to the story here:

https://abcnews.go.com/News/woman-who-passed-school-bus-on-s...

--
. Nuvi 2689, two Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N, Garmin, built into my Jeep. .

Yep

soberbyker wrote:

OK I had my rant above on the flip side, now for this on topic, a woman in Ohio drives on the sidewalk to get past a school bus with flashing reds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UTM40K53K8

and a follow up to the story here:

https://abcnews.go.com/News/woman-who-passed-school-bus-on-sidewalk-holds-idiot-sign/blogEntry?id=17716860

Yeah, that was here in Cleveland a few years ago. She was doing it for a fairly long time before somebody finally blew the whistle on her and she got busted.

Phil

--
Phil in Mentor, Ohio -- Garmin Nuvi 1450

STATE LAW

plunder wrote:
phranc wrote:

...It's your responsibility to know such things as school bus laws. Every state I have ever crossed into have had signs at the border specifically detailing school bus laws...

I live in Ohio and we don't have the school bus laws posted at every border road crossing. I dare say we don't have the school bus laws posted at ANY border road crossing. If you think about it, the signs would have to be pretty big and pretty readable if your state wanted to educate every out-of-state driver as they entered.
And by the way, I don't disagree that it's the driver's responsibility to know the local traffic laws.

Phil

I expect that there are signs there, and they are simple and succinct.

STATE LAW
Stop for buses loading or unloading children.

Nice simple white sign with black lettering. Which by the way, white signs with black lettering have force of law. Same as a speed limit sign

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Frank Nuvi 3597LMT 37.322760, -79.511267

Also

they are reported to the police where I live and almost every day they are out to contact the miscreant drivers and issue them a citation.

--
TomTom built in and Garmin Nuvi 1490T. Eastern Iowa, formerly Southern California "You can check out any time you like...but you can never leave."

it's interesting

flaco wrote:

I don't know how traffic enforcement is in PA nowadays, in Philly back in my time there used to be very rigorously enforced, it has been a long time since I moved from there to Sunny Florida and I can tell you in Florida traffic violations are lately SELDOM ticketed.

In the last decade I've seen a decline in Police presence in Tampa, Miami and Orlando area, in Tampa sometimes I go days without seen a Police cruiser, is that the same in the area of the country you live?

Where I live we need to be protected, you never know when kids panhandling at the Wawa, will get upset that you don't give them $20 in their $600 ice hockey skates as they have a tournament in Finland and need money. I'm being facetious as the kids are always well-mannered when they are asking for money towards a hockey tournament. Why I poke fun is that in my time we shoveled snow, raked leaves, did something for the money.

Point being plenty of cops in the suburbs, but I can go days without seeing one in Phila. And as mentioned, I will pass through W Phila or SW Phila. In the suburbs, seriously, I would think twice about speeding or rolling stop signs like everyone does in Phila...