Nuvi 855 gone nuts !!!

 

Yesterday was the second time that this happened. I had a route to destination set up and was following it.
All of a sudden the 855 was giving out a whole lot of nonsense gibberish directions which almost resembled someone speaking a very rapid Chinese. Also along the top of the screen some written gibberish was displayed instead of the current street. Same happened two weeks ago but with the addition that the darned thing would reboot every two minutes all by itself.

In both cases when I got home I pulled the battery and disconnected the 855 from any external power, then after a couple of minutes re-installed the battery and clipped it back into the cradle.

Is the darn thing becoming senile in it's old age?

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Aliens

Must be aliens taking over the route.

--
romanviking

Hmm

Hmm, if a hard reset does nothing, it may be time to toss it. The question I'd ask is "Can I trust this in the future" and if the answer is no, it's time for a trip to your electronics recycling center for a drop off.

A couple of things to check ..

1) How much free space do you have in internal storage
2) Are you using the mp3 player or book reader when problem occurs?
3) Do you have a lot of custom POI's with proximity and tour guide alerts?

On my 855, I have had occasional lockups, spontaneous reboots, screeching from the speaker, garbled screen. This happens when I get a little too aggressive with proximity alert and tour guide alert density, especially if I am simultaneously using the MP3 player.

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

Where were you?

"someone speaking a very rapid Chinese".

Were you in Beijing when it happened? :lol:

--
Under no circumstances whatsoever, will logic and common sense be tolerated.

:) :)

smile smile

home depot

Home Depot has mortar on sale.

Free space ?

alandb wrote:

1) How much free space do you have in internal storage
2) Are you using the mp3 player or book reader when problem occurs?
3) Do you have a lot of custom POI's with proximity and tour guide alerts?

On my 855, I have had occasional lockups, spontaneous reboots, screeching from the speaker, garbled screen. This happens when I get a little too aggressive with proximity alert and tour guide alert density, especially if I am simultaneously using the MP3 player.

Free space is low, but map is on a SD card and so is the JCV file. I removed all unnecessary text, help, MP3 files years ago. Never used the MP3 or book reader.
I don't use Tourguide but have a fair number of POI's.
Maybe I'll move them over to the SD card.

CraigW I normally use the 855 as a backup for the 2797 and it has never acted up before these two times, solid as a rock.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

POI;'s

I don't think moving POI's to SD will be of much help. It is the alert density (getting simultaneous alerts for multiple locations) that can cause problems. If you are not using TourGuide alerts, it is unlikely that this is the problem.

I usually try to keep at least 100 MB of free space in internal storage so there is sufficient "work space" for current.gps, the trip log and whatever else may be needed for smooth operation.

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

Space

alandb wrote:

I don't think moving POI's to SD will be of much help. It is the alert density (getting simultaneous alerts for multiple locations) that can cause problems. If you are not using TourGuide alerts, it is unlikely that this is the problem.

I usually try to keep at least 100 MB of free space in internal storage so there is sufficient "work space" for current.gps, the trip log and whatever else may be needed for smooth operation.

That's about what I have right now too.
In about 8 days I'm driving to the east coast of Canada. I have two routes laid out to get there, one via Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine and then on to Nova Scotia. Maybe I'll remove it since the Beaver-buck is not too good in the USA.
Other route is via Quebec to Nova Scotia. One other route is for coming home.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

8XX lockups

The 8XX series is differnt from all the other units in the Nuvi line as its operating system is based on Unix. As far as I can recall there was one software update for the 8XX series, and that had to do with sound. The Nuvi used to play whatever recording was being listened to and reduce the volume so an instruction would sound over the top. After the update the MP3 or book sound was stopped and the instruction given then the sound was restored missing the period while the instruction was playing.

It was also about this time a new problem started occurring, the lockups where the screen would freeze but the route continued. The only cure was a cold start by either removing all power or forcing a reboot by holding the power switch off for at least 10 seconds.

My experience was these were related to sound and the number of simultaneous requests for different sounds. I found the unit could handle two requests just fine, but introduce a third and strange things happened. This, for me, mainly occurred when POI announcements were close together and then a direction was issued - instant lockup.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

only at pOI factory

Box Car wrote:

...the screen would freeze but the route continued. The only cure was a cold start by either removing all power or forcing a reboot by holding the power switch off for at least 10 seconds...

This is the kind of information you can only get at POI Factory! Box Car has told us about the 8XX series before.

Melaqueman, now that you know how to reset the nuvi, it becomes reliable again just in time!

dobs108 smile

Disagree.

I respect your views and knowledge Box Car, but disagree with a couple of the statements you make about the nuvi 855. I have had my 855 since 2010, still use it and have applied every software update that it was offered during the time I have owned it.There have not been any software updates on this series for a long time, but the newest version is 4.70 which is what I have on my 855.

Box Car wrote:

The 8XX series is differnt from all the other units in the Nuvi line as its operating system is based on Unix.

This part is correct. The nuvi 8x0, 8x5 and 5000 were all based on this Unix kernel, unlike other nuvi models.

Box Car wrote:

As far as I can recall there was one software update for the 8XX series,

Actually there were a number of software updates ... current version is 4.70 as I previously stated

Box Car wrote:

and that had to do with sound. The Nuvi used to play whatever recording was being listened to and reduce the volume so an instruction would sound over the top. After the update the MP3 or book sound was stopped and the instruction given then the sound was restored missing the period while the instruction was playing.

The 8x5 mp3 player has always just reduced volume on the MP3/audio book player and mixes the navigation prompts on top of the player. This is still true with the current 4.70 software. The 7x5 nuvi series pauses the play during navigation prompts as you describe, but the 8x5 just reduces the volume. The 7x5 method is superior and does not cause the problems with audio conflicts like the 8x5 does. I opened a support case with Garmin on this issue several years ago and they confirmed that they would not be fixing this issue on the 8x5 (and they never did).

Box Car wrote:

It was also about this time a new problem started occurring, the lockups where the screen would freeze but the route continued. The only cure was a cold start by either removing all power or forcing a reboot by holding the power switch off for at least 10 seconds.

8x5 software has always been somewhat unstable, but in my experience, the later versions, especially 4.70 is reasonably reliable unless you overtax the processor. I agree that the hard power reboot is often required to clear a lockup or other operational issue on the 8x5

Box Car wrote:

My experience was these were related to sound and the number of simultaneous requests for different sounds. I found the unit could handle two requests just fine, but introduce a third and strange things happened. This, for me, mainly occurred when POI announcements were close together and then a direction was issued - instant lockup.

Yup, multiple simultaneous audio outputs will send your 8x5 into seizures smile

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

Reboot

I've rebooted often enough by removing the battery and 12volt from the cradle. I guess I'll copy/save my *.gpx and POI files and try to see if a factory reset will make a difference.
Yes, I also have updated the 855 to any and all available software updates from Garmin. Even though I know it is old I still check to see whether Garmin is sneaking in an update.
I have already removed the route via the USA so now only have two routes saved.
Like I said other than the recent instances the 855 has been a rock !!!

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

I wonder

Melaqueman wrote:

I've rebooted often enough by removing the battery and 12volt from the cradle. I guess I'll copy/save my *.gpx and POI files and try to see if a factory reset will make a difference.
Yes, I also have updated the 855 to any and all available software updates from Garmin. Even though I know it is old I still check to see whether Garmin is sneaking in an update.
I have already removed the route via the USA so now only have two routes saved.
Like I said other than the recent instances the 855 has been a rock !!!

With the discussion of Free Workspace, Alert Density, etc., I wonder if the size of a route might matter. Could it be that a 50-mile (80 Km, Mela.... wink ) route may never cause this effect while a thousand mile trip will have this issue? I partly ask this because I think Mela... sometimes does create these super-routes.

Any thoughts?

SR

Actually in the past I have had a route from Ontario to well into Mexico (2,500miles) without any ill effects Craig.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

855

Just stuck the 855 on my computer to copy files to another folder on my HDD.
In the GPX folder there is a temp.gpx and a current.gpx.

While looking around the Nuvi folder I found another current.gpx in the ROOT folder of the Nuvi.

I am now wondering if that would cause a conflict. Just to be sure, I DID NOT create this current.gpx file in this location !
They are both different sizes.
The file in the GPX folder has my routes in the current.gpx file.
The other file in the Root folder, current.gpx file has all my wayoints in it before creating any routes.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Neither

Neither the Current.gpx file in the root or the temp.gpx file in the GPX folder need to be on your Nuvi.

The Current.gpx file in the GPX folder is freshly created every time you boot up the device. It contains all your favorites, routes, tracks, etc. When it gets created at boot up it folds in all the data contained in any other gpx file it finds on the Nuvi so the new current.gpx file will always contains the contents of the temp.gpx and the other current.gpx.

Once that data is incorporated in the newly created current.gpx file you don't need the other two files on your device, and in fact, leaving them there will make it pretty much impossible to delete a favorite from your system as it will just get installed again from the contents of those other 2 files on the next boot up.

Not sure if having 2 current.gpx files on the GPS will cause problems but certainly the one in the GPX folder is all that the 855 will be using.

--
Nuvi 350, 760, 1695LM, 3790LMT, 2460LMT, 3597LMTHD, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, DriveSmart 61, Garmin Backup Camera 40 and TomTom XXL540s.

GPX

t923347
I have removed the extra current file as well as the Temp file.
Now will need to see what will happen.
Thx

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

Free space.

One thing I am wondering ... if you have the map on SD card, why do you only have 100 MB of free space in internal storage? It seems like you should have at least 1 or 2 GB if the map file is not in internal storage. Is there any chance you have multiple maps installed? Or perhaps some other orphaned files from old map updates?

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

Good one

alandb wrote:

One thing I am wondering ... if you have the map on SD card, why do you only have 100 MB of free space in internal storage? It seems like you should have at least 1 or 2 GB if the map file is not in internal storage. Is there any chance you have multiple maps installed? Or perhaps some other orphaned files from old map updates?

A good thought. A possibility for 'some other orphaned files' is several older versions of files in the ASR folder meant for earlier map updates that should have been deleted. If there are multiple maps installed, and if they're active, all sorts of grief could arise.

Since the 8x5 can't auto-install map updates to a SD card, more possibilities exist depending on whether at any time in the past 1) the clone technique was used, or 2) some map was installed to the nuvi itself with MapInstall used to install the remainder to a SD card.

855 Total Space

Just as a point of reference, on my nuvi 855, I keep the map files in internal storage. On the SD card I have the large JCV file in folder \Garmin\JCV, and the ASR and SRX files in folder \Garmin\ASR.

My 855 internal storage shows 2.83 GB used with 665 MB free.
My 8 GB SD card has 1.55 GB space used, 5.90 GB free.

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

Maybe the problem ?

alandb wrote:

Just as a point of reference, on my nuvi 855, I keep the map files in internal storage. On the SD card I have the large JCV file in folder \Garmin\JCV, and the ASR and SRX files in folder \Garmin\ASR.

My 855 internal storage shows 2.83 GB used with 665 MB free.
My 8 GB SD card has 1.55 GB space used, 5.90 GB free.

My 855 shows a total of 3.01 GB used, but of that there are 2.73 GB in the ASR folder and a total of 14 files.
01XV08W2.ASR 428.015 kb 2010
01XV08W3.ASR 112.347 kb 2010
05FBOBNL.ASR 781.698 kb 2016
048UHSE9.ASR 769.819 kb 2013
04785P1D.asr 769.587 kb 2013

There ia also
English_American.SRD
English_American.SUM
The 7 other files are quite small, between 1 kb and 2,700 kb.

In the GPX folder current.gpx is about 1,100 kb

The LARGEST file in the Garmin folder is
gmapbmap.img 50.500 kb 2016

Map and JCV are on my SD card. All ASR files are duplicated on the SD card. Only one gmapsupp.img on the SD card (Cloned)

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

ASR/SRX

The ASR and SRX files that go with CN NA 2017.20 are 05HPWWZL.ASR and 05HPWWZK.SRX. If you used cloning, you may find these files on the SD card in folder \Garmin\ASR.

You do need to keep the English_American.SRD file and it must stay in internal storage, not SD. The ASR and SRX files can go either in internal storage or SD. I would think you can delete all the other files in the \Garmin\ASR folder, but make a backup first, just in case.

Note that if you installed a reduced region and not the full NA map, these files may have different names. In that case, you should be able to use the file date (which should be the same as your gmapsupp.img file) to determine what is current, and delete the others (but do not delete English_American.SRD).

On a 8x5 nuvi, you should get one .ASR file and one .SRX file with each map update, These will have different names than the files that came with the previous version, but Garmin Express should automatically delete the old files. I said "should". As we have noted in the past, sometimes Express does not correctly clean up after itself and you end up with orphaned files. Also, as CraigW stated earlier, if you are using cloning, MapInstall or some other non-standard map update method, you need to deal with this cleanup manually.

--
Alan - Android Auto, DriveLuxe 51LMT-S, DriveLuxe 50LMTHD, Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra, Bosch Nyon

Agreed

alandb wrote:

The ASR and SRX files that go with CN NA 2017.20 are 05HPWWZL.ASR and 05HPWWZK.SRX. You do need to keep the English_American.SRD file and it must stay in internal storage, not SD. The ASR and SRD files can go either in internal storage or SD. I would think you can delete all the other files in the \Garmin\ASR folder, but make a backup first, just in case.

Note that if you installed a reduced region and not the full NA map, these files may have different names. In that case, you should be able to use the file date (which should be the same as your gmapsupp.img file) to determine what is current, and delete the others (but do not delete English_American.SRD).

I agree. All of Mel's asr and srx files in the nuvi are for older versions of City Navigator and can be deleted after being safe and having made a backup. His 05HPW... asr and srx files used with the current City Navigator map is being used from the SD card (and his SD card need only have the one 05HPW.... asr file and one srx file). This will free up over 2.75 GB of space in the nuvi.

The cloning FAQ does state that for devices with voice recognition that have asr and srx files, the old ones need to be deleted leaving just the newly cloned files intended for the new map update.

I just checked my nuvi 855 with the City Navigator NA 2017.20 map. Although a tight squeeze (140MB free but that's with all available English language voices installed as well—I'd have about 200 MB free space if I didn't have all the optional voices installed), my 855 is able to install all of North America internally to the nuvi with no need for a SD card. (Ditto for 2017.10 and 2016.20, my two PC backups I still have.)

Now to see if that ends Mel's spoken 'Chinese.' Since my 855 is a backup to a backup device, I can't remember when I last used it for navigation so I can't say if my limited free space would cause me grief.

Canada or US

Melaqueman wrote:

In about 8 days I'm driving to the east coast of Canada. I have two routes laid out to get there, one via Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine and then on to Nova Scotia. Maybe I'll remove it since the Beaver-buck is not too good in the USA.
Other route is via Quebec to Nova Scotia. One other route is for coming home.

In 1969 we drove from New York State through Montreal and Quebec City. Wanted to stay at the Chateau Frontenac but did not have a reservation. Stayed at a motel out of town.

We took a road southeast across the Maine north woods. It took hours with nothing but trees on both sides of the road. From Maine we drove west through New Hampshire and Vermont. We purposely took side roads, and that meant gravel roads.

The 1950 DeSoto had a stone hit the oil pan and create a pin hole. It was leaking oil about one quart every 50 miles (80 km). The attendant at a one-pump gas station directed us to a farm "up the road apiece." We arrived at the farm at 6:00 PM and knocked, but through the screen door we saw the farmer and his family eating dinner!

Nevertheless, he left the dinner table to help us. He put the car on a jack and drained the oil and brazed the hole in the oil pan with an acetylene torch. Smoke was pouring out of the engine while he did this! And then (and this is the Yankee touch) he put the same oil back in the engine!

The bill? He charged us two dollars! I couldn't believe it even by 1969 standards, so I gave him ten dollars.

The moral of the story? It doesn't matter US Bucks or Beaver Bucks. It's the experience that counts!

dobs108 cool

Weird

Melaqueman wrote:

Yesterday was the second time that this happened. I had a route to destination set up and was following it.
All of a sudden the 855 was giving out a whole lot of nonsense gibberish directions which almost resembled someone speaking a very rapid Chinese. Also along the top of the screen some written gibberish was displayed instead of the current street. Same happened two weeks ago but with the addition that the darned thing would reboot every two minutes all by itself.

In both cases when I got home I pulled the battery and disconnected the 855 from any external power, then after a couple of minutes re-installed the battery and clipped it back into the cradle.

Is the darn thing becoming senile in it's old age?

Something similar happen to my 2460 on a return trip from Pennsylvania, following the route and somewhere in MD the map just went off, showing the car icon, speed etc but no map. I wonder if it is something wrong with the latest map

--
Garmin 38 - Magellan Gold - Garmin Yellow eTrex - Nuvi 260 - Nuvi 2460LMT - Google Nexus 7 - Toyota Entune NAV

Map in Maryland?

flaco wrote:

Something similar happen to my 2460 on a return trip from Pennsylvania, following the route and somewhere in MD the map just went off, showing the car icon, speed etc but no map. I wonder if it is something wrong with the latest map

There was an another unexplained problem in Maryland that could be map-related:

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/46269

dobs108 smile

Clean-up

I have removed all the extra ASR files and now have 2.46 GB of free space on the 855. That is even with 3 routes still in the system. Also since having deleted the temp.gpx file it has not returned. I will leave the map files on the SD card since between the full NA map and the large JCV file it takes up 3.9 GB of space on my 8GB SD card. I need the full map, Canada, USA and Mexico since I spend almost 6 months in Mexico.

I also think that all the extra ASR files may be because of my NOT being sure which should have been removed/deleted after a map update. I will make a note of which files to move when the map update installs new files again on the SD card. BTW: There is no ASR folder on the SD card, since if I recall correctly the cloning method says to remove it after having copied the files to the GPS.

Thank you very much for taking the time to try and get this cleared up for me.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

ASR and SRX

Melaqueman wrote:

I have removed all the extra ASR files and now have 2.46 GB of free space on the 855. That is even with 3 routes still in the system. Also since having deleted the temp.gpx file it has not returned. I will leave the map files on the SD card since between the full NA map and the large JCV file it takes up 3.9 GB of space on my 8GB SD card. I need the full map, Canada, USA and Mexico since I spend almost 6 months in Mexico.

I also think that all the extra ASR files may be because of my NOT being sure which should have been removed/deleted after a map update. I will make a note of which files to move when the map update installs new files again on the SD card. BTW: There is no ASR folder on the SD card, since if I recall correctly the cloning method says to remove it after having copied the files to the GPS.

Thank you very much for taking the time to try and get this cleared up for me.

Do you have the two voice recognition files intended for the 2017.20 map in the nuvi since you say you have none on the SD card: 05HPWWZL.ASR and 05HPWWZK.SRX? If not, the voice recognition (after pressing the 855's battery-powered remote control button) will not work. But if you don't use voice commands, I expect you don't need these.

We do look forward to hearing if this cleanup eliminated your "gone nuts" issues.

Files

I did exactly what alandb suggested. Left the two ASR and SRX plus the actual English_American files in the ASR folder.

In a week I'm off on a very long drive and I guess it will show then if all is A1 100% again.

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

A great story dobs108

dobs108 wrote:

In 1969 we drove from New York State through Montreal and Quebec City. Wanted to stay at the Chateau Frontenac but did not have a reservation. Stayed at a motel out of town.

We took a road southeast across the Maine north woods. It took hours with nothing but trees on both sides of the road. From Maine we drove west through New Hampshire and Vermont. We purposely took side roads, and that meant gravel roads.

The 1950 DeSoto had a stone hit the oil pan and create a pin hole. It was leaking oil about one quart every 50 miles (80 km). The attendant at a one-pump gas station directed us to a farm "up the road apiece." We arrived at the farm at 6:00 PM and knocked, but through the screen door we saw the farmer and his family eating dinner!

Nevertheless, he left the dinner table to help us. He put the car on a jack and drained the oil and brazed the hole in the oil pan with an acetylene torch. Smoke was pouring out of the engine while he did this! And then (and this is the Yankee touch) he put the same oil back in the engine!

The bill? He charged us two dollars! I couldn't believe it even by 1969 standards, so I gave him ten dollars.

The moral of the story? It doesn't matter US Bucks or Beaver Bucks. It's the experience that counts!

dobs108 cool

It's nice knowing there are good people out there that will go out of their way to help a complete stranger. smile

--
Nüvi 255WT with nüMaps Lifetime North America born on 602117815 / Nüvi 3597LMTHD born on 805972514 / I love Friday’s except when I’m on holidays ~ canuk

History

canuk wrote:

It's nice knowing there are good people out there that will go out of their way to help a complete stranger. smile

Of course you realize that that was 47 years ago !

It will be interesting how I will find driving thru Quebec, interacting with the locals ?

--
Nuvi 350 long gone, Nuvi 855LMT, Nuvi 2797LMT, DriveSmart 50 LMT-HD, 3790LMT now my daughters. Using Windows 10. DashCam A108C with GPS.

quebec

47 years ago no one in Quebec City would speak English with us. Menus were all in French. I got along with my poor Spanish.

It should be remembered that the French lost the decisive battle of the French and Indian War (Seven Years' War) on the Plains of Abraham at Quebec City in 1759. Some of my ancestors were forced to migrate from Arcadia because of the war. They did not go to New Orleans, but Brooklyn, New York!

We were in Quebec last year and everyone was friendly and spoke English as well as they could. I tried my limited French but they would smile and answer in English.

dobs108 smile