Apple's refusal to allow backdoor access to its iPhones
Sun, 02/28/2016 - 11:18am
|
14 years
|
What do you guys think of this?
I think some non-techies have not really paid much attention to electronic privacy rights in the past. But now Apple's recent stance has increased awareness.
No matter the outcome, I'm glad to see more discussion around this topic, especially in the larger population.
I support Apples stance even
I support Apples stance even though I'm a droid person.
Wakeup Call For Me
This whole incident has actually made me realize at age 53 (almost 54) that NOTHING of yours is truly yours in the country. Besides the fact that the government can take your property through Eminent Domain, and many cities abuse that to a fault, your personal papers, diary, cell phone, anything you own, can be taken by the government by what they call a "lawful order". Problem is, the law always changes, sometimes in secret. We now know that the secret FISA court was issuing uncontested warrants at a drop of the hat. I laugh now when I hear the argument "it is protected by law". BS! The law can be changed any time, or simply ignored, and unless the DOJ prosecutes, then no harm, no foul to any government officials. Then of course there were the secret FBI National Security Letters (NSL) that were not warrants but compelled you to comply and keep your mouth shut too. I shudder to think what will happen if researchers are someday able to extract thoughts from the human brain. Then absolutely nothing will be private any longer.
It is interesting to note that those in the government who are supporting Apple, contrary to Obama's recent statement, are those with computer science/technical degrees who understand the implications (head of the NSA for example). The head of the FBI has a liberal arts degree so has no real grasp of the technical issues he is looking to create. Sad thing is there is no requirement in government that you actually know what you are talking about when pushing for new laws and restrictions.
I support the right to keep and arm bears.
Pretty Good Article with Tim Cook
Good read:
http://news.yahoo.com/no-one-tim-cook-declares-201037707.htm...
When you are dead, you don’t know that you are dead. It is only difficult for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.
Misinformed?
The comments that "it's totally different because that capability doesn't exist" is misinformed. Software experts have stated it will take Apple at most a few hours to comply with the court order. This isn't some huge task. It is about the same as asking somebody to look something up. It will be about the same effort.
Nonsense. I'm not sure who your misinformed software experts are, but they certainly do not work for Apple or know anything about designing the iOS.
No Back Door
It's Apples fault. Make a phone with a back door and sooner or later the government is going to demand you open it. If they encrypted the phone with no back door, they wouldn't have this problem. If people lose their password then tough, reenter all your info. if you don't want the hassle of backing it up yourself. Apple should not be involved with helping legitimate people back into their phone because the gov't will say they are one of the legitimate people.
Huh? You must have missed the most important facts of the case and article. The government is upset because there IS NO backdoor. The phone was encrypted with no back door. FBI wants Apple to design create, and build a backdoor that currently does NOT exist.
it's almost amazing
It's a;most amazing the number of people that are having difficulty with the N and the O in NO BACKDOOR EXISTS and the gubbermint wants one created.
Illiterate? Write for free help.
But....But....But....
It's a;most amazing the number of people that are having difficulty with the N and the O in NO BACKDOOR EXISTS and the gubbermint wants one created.
I've already made up my mind and logic and reality be damned, create the back door!!!
All to many people, view software like a bunch of planks, nails and other hardware that you can easily modify because it's tangible, physically something you can touch not like the intelectual artifacts of software that requires the freakin' Operating System to become unlocked prior it being updated!
Now, if the entity of the Operating System resided in a chip... Well.... then.... maybe it wouldn't be to hard to create the back door on a new ckip then just replace the chip, start it up and away you could go.
IFF Apple designed their entire Operating System code to be contained in a E-Prom chip, where the E-Prom could be easily replaced replaced phtsically: and some really smart 12 year old figured it out and exposed what he'd discovered, all hell would likely break loose!
Me my poor Android phone is completely encrypted. And the paascode is 22 characters long if I can count on my fingers correctly!!!
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!
Look at the CCW states
that only good guys buy guns legally (at least in the US).
Look at the CCW states. Very little crime compared to others. When the bad guys know people could be carrying, and shoot in self-defense, well, it seems to deter that quite well.
nüvi 3790T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK
New Article
Another article about setting the precedent and using terrorists as the excuse for it.
http://qz.com/642256/the-fbi-has-a-big-ulterior-motive-in-it...
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams
Plus 1
+1 telecom
G.
A recent analysis by Politifact
that only good guys buy guns legally (at least in the US).
Look at the CCW states. Very little crime compared to others. When the bad guys know people could be carrying, and shoot in self-defense, well, it seems to deter that quite well.
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/oct/09/mat...
This Gets Better
There are a couple articles out there where Apple engineers are preparing to quit. These are the key staff that would be needed to attempt to make any iPhone OS to comply with the FBI Court Order.
So the FBI might get a Court Order to make Apple do something, but it will be difficult or impossible to do if the people are no longer with Apple.
When you are dead, you don’t know that you are dead. It is only difficult for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.
No, it's not
There are a couple articles out there where Apple engineers are preparing to quit. These are the key staff that would be needed to attempt to make any iPhone OS to comply with the FBI Court Order.
So the FBI might get a Court Order to make Apple do something, but it will be difficult or impossible to do if the people are no longer with Apple.
Having worked in software development I know that the code used for an OS is well documented within the company. Programmers come and go, even software engineers but the source code stays along with its documentation so someone coming into the effort doesn't have a years long learning curve. If a company put all its effort in the hands of a few and didn't have the documentation to back up their efforts, then the company would deserve to fail when the key people left. Apple is smarter than that.
Illiterate? Write for free help.
Don't Allow a "Back Door"
This discussion is being portrayed, by those advocating a so-called "back door, in a deceptive and disgusting manner.
The issue really is not simply about privacy, but of your security. The pro "back door" crowd claims that life must be made easier for law enforcement, by eliminating encryption, so that they can capture the bad buys. One of the common assertions, the ability to find those pedophiles.
What they aren't telling you is that the so-called "back door" essentially eliminates your security. Hackers will be able to break into your device and do all sorts of malicious actions. Unbreakable encryption is necessary for you to conduct many legitimate business activities, such as buying stuff on the internet.
Furthermore, another topic not covered by the break encryption crowd; the "bad" guys can create their own encryption anyway. So here we have a situation where the "good" guys will have their computers made less secure, but the bad guys will adapt by using other encryption. The "good" guys require unbreakable encryption.
So basically, do you want to make life easier for law enforcement so that they can catch those pedophiles or do you want all your financial data to be secure from hackers. The choice is clear, your data must be secure. As for law enforcement, they need to catch the criminals through hard foot work investigating leads, not by snooping.
A must see video.
John Oliver Explains Why You Should Side With Apple Over The FBI Better Than Most Journalists
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20160314/08023233897/john-...
Below is a link to various article on why it is bad to "break" encryption.
https://www.techdirt.com/blog/?tag=encryption
Garmin Nuvi650 - Morehead City, NC
back door
the government is the worst place to store any information that you want to keep private the fbi was hacked the nsa was hacked the social security was hacked the irs was hacked and they want all your info why ?so that they can let the Chinese have it really !! they want apple to give them access to their encryption no is the only option, until they get their own house in order and protect the information they have I don't believe they need any more info ! they cant protect their own citizens info that's in their care now !
I agree
There are a couple articles out there where Apple engineers are preparing to quit. These are the key staff that would be needed to attempt to make any iPhone OS to comply with the FBI Court Order.
So the FBI might get a Court Order to make Apple do something, but it will be difficult or impossible to do if the people are no longer with Apple.
Having worked in software development I know that the code used for an OS is well documented within the company. Programmers come and go, even software engineers but the source code stays along with its documentation so someone coming into the effort doesn't have a years long learning curve. If a company put all its effort in the hands of a few and didn't have the documentation to back up their efforts, then the company would deserve to fail when the key people left. Apple is smarter than that.
And good software design engineering says the code is supposed to be self documenting... HAHAHAHAHA!!
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!
You went to far..
the government wants apple to give them access to their encryption... NO is the only option
Nuf Said
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!
it's old notion
For those, who think that government should get what it wants I say this: it always was about "national security", "fighting terrorists", "only exceptional circumstances" and whatever was in use at the time. That was justification in history. But after government get what it wanted it still was unable to provide security. But soon it was using this new tools to get it's enemies, as definition of terrorist or security was somehow totally different than in beginning. If you give them finger they take whole arm and will want more. So far you may think its all about terrorists, but tomorrow somehow you can be declared as terrorist. Probably it was said best like this:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemöller
It was '30 in Germany, and nobody was believing that civilized government in civilized country could do what was done in next 10 years.
Bada-BING!
And good software design engineering says the code is supposed to be self documenting... HAHAHAHAHA!!
When you are dead, you don’t know that you are dead. It is only difficult for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.
Ever Advancing security & encryption is...
far more important to providing and strengthening national security than demanding that the very same security and encryption be compromised in the name of national security.
The FBI, LE, etc., simply wants to have someone else (the Courts) do their job for them.
Again, it is scary and embarrassing what has been revealed here, and that is that the FBI, CIA , NSA, and all the resources of the USA can not crack an iPhone. Also, the President of the USA was not allowed to have an iPhone because of security concerns, and he was given a Blackberry instead.
When you are dead, you don’t know that you are dead. It is only difficult for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.
Godwin's law ...
For those, who think that government should get what it wants I say this: it always was about "national security", "fighting terrorists", "only exceptional circumstances" and whatever was in use at the time. That was justification in history. But after government get what it wanted it still was unable to provide security. But soon it was using this new tools to get it's enemies, as definition of terrorist or security was somehow totally different than in beginning. If you give them finger they take whole arm and will want more. So far you may think its all about terrorists, but tomorrow somehow you can be declared as terrorist. Probably it was said best like this:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
Martin Niemöller
It was '30 in Germany, and nobody was believing that civilized government in civilized country could do what was done in next 10 years.
It took a while ... but thanks for playing ...
for it, but...
all for it, but they could make exception for this tragedy
[URL=http://www.speedtest.net][IMG]http://www.speedtest.net/result/693683800.png[/IMG][/URL]
just this once, right?
Except there is no 'just this once'...
But, you trust the Gov to tell the truth, right?
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!
nüvi 3790T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK
What government security
I have been retired for about four years and I am also one of the hundreds of thousands of people who received letters in the mail stating that all of the personal information I gave them required to get a secret security clearance had been compromised, as in stolen. That's only about every piece of personal information about me since I was born. If you could you should ask Edward Snowden why the government is the last enity that should be trusted with confidential information. Our ex Secretary of State is a prime example of how they don't control the highest possible level of secret data any better than common emails.
thats not nice
Our ex Secretary of State is a prime example of how they don't control the highest possible level of secret data any better than common emails.
To talk about Colin Powell or Condi Rice like that!
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!
No Exceptions
all for it, but they could make exception for this tragedy
The Patriot Act didn't work, didn't produce.
Exceptions produce precedents, and in this case, very dangerous precedents.
The San Bernardino shooting, as horrible as it was, is nothing compared to what will happen with compromised security (aka: backdoor) or dumbed down so the FBI can get in.
When you are dead, you don’t know that you are dead. It is only difficult for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.
There can be no exemption
@alofficial: Technologically does not recognize "good" or "bad". If the government can do it, so can the terrorists. In what remains of our "free" society you have to accept the "bad" along with the "good". It is unfortunate that the terrorists are "protected" by technology, but fortunately you are also "protected" by the same techonology. The terrorists won't be able hack into your stuff.
Garmin Nuvi650 - Morehead City, NC
Exactly!
If I want to send secure texts, MMS, or sound bites, I use Wickr.
The bad guys are using it too, or Telegram, or something similar. If you REALLY want to mix it up, use one to send, and then reply to the other app!
nüvi 3790T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK
in reality
It must exist already.
Say you design a network--ideally, and 99.999% of the time, an installer simply racks routers and switches, and plugs in either T1 (still) or some sort of MetroE service, or even public internet with a firewall, and a corporate/secured network comes up.
But what happens the other 1.00 minus .99999 times? One isn't going to fly from New York to Sydney to check a cable, or to check a config, one will use the back door to each device, to see what's going on. Sure it has AES encryption, but you know how to get in.
Remember back in the day, how people foolishly didn't realize their employers had full access to text messaging on BlackBerrys?
comparing apples to elephants?
It must exist already.
Say you design a network--ideally, and 99.999% of the time, an installer simply racks routers and switches, and plugs in either T1 (still) or some sort of MetroE service, or even public internet with a firewall, and a corporate/secured network comes up.
But what happens the other 1.00 minus .99999 times? One isn't going to fly from New York to Sydney to check a cable, or to check a config, one will use the back door to each device, to see what's going on. Sure it has AES encryption, but you know how to get in.
Remember back in the day, how people foolishly didn't realize their employers had full access to text messaging on BlackBerrys?
Since when did a remote maintenance access become a back door? What you are describing is a routine maintenance feature built into almost all permanently connected hardware and not software. Granted, some remote maintenance access can modify configurations or download new soft/firmware but those features are usually well documented and disclosed to the end-user at time of purchase. What is being asked is in no way even remotely similar.
Illiterate? Write for free help.
If the shoe fits
Our ex Secretary of State is a prime example of how they don't control the highest possible level of secret data any better than common emails.
To talk about Colin Powell or Condi Rice like that!
This applies to anyone who risks our national security through carelessness or just plain stupidity. Hacking data is increasing at a rapid rate so the later in time I guess the more my original statement applies.
This Once
all for it, but they could make exception for this tragedy
Is Two Times
Too Many
Curiosity is the acquisition of knowledge. And the death of cats.
you're not serious, or are you?
those features are usually well documented and disclosed to the end-user at time of purchase.
If this were the case, there would be no such thing as the end-user hacking into their own systems that they possess and have paid for (for legit purposes that the mfg. is against, likely related to revenue).
Work Phone
My work phone (iPhone 6s - I freaking HATE it!) has Mobiliron installed on it so they can do whatever they like. Of course our security people are insane. They have now disabled the fingerprint unlock on the phone and forced me to use an 8 digit unlock code which is vastly less secure. My thinking is that, because they have essentially no clue, they figure they are getting around this whole issue by making sure I have to use a stupid unlock code rather than my fingerprint. What a joke. With the software they have installed it doesn't matter at all but, being government idiots, they think they are being "more secure".
I am sooooooooooooooooooo glad I'm retiring and getting away from this sort of idiocy.
GPSMAP 76CSx - nüvi 760 - nüvi 200 - GPSMAP 78S
Janice from accounting don't give a...
Good watch. John Oliver on encryption
https://youtu.be/zsjZ2r9Ygzw
Garmin Nuvi 1490LMT, Nuvi 750, Nuvi 255LT
...
My work phone (iPhone 6s - I freaking HATE it!) has Mobiliron installed on it so they can do whatever they like. Of course our security people are insane. They have now disabled the fingerprint unlock on the phone and forced me to use an 8 digit unlock code which is vastly less secure. My thinking is that, because they have essentially no clue, they figure they are getting around this whole issue by making sure I have to use a stupid unlock code rather than my fingerprint. What a joke. With the software they have installed it doesn't matter at all but, being government idiots, they think they are being "more secure".
I am sooooooooooooooooooo glad I'm retiring and getting away from this sort of idiocy.
An 8 digit security PIN is much more secure mathematically than a consumer grade biometric of a fingerprint.
In addition, you usually don't leave an 8 digit PIN on anything you touch and you can change the PIN.
you know
those features are usually well documented and disclosed to the end-user at time of purchase.
If this were the case, there would be no such thing as the end-user hacking into their own systems that they possess and have paid for (for legit purposes that the mfg. is against, likely related to revenue).
That is not worth a response.
Illiterate? Write for free help.
Late Breaking News
A "third party" has recommended a technique to get into the phone, which would let Apple off the hook. The Court showdown between Apple and the FBI for March 22 has been canceled.
When you are dead, you don’t know that you are dead. It is only difficult for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.
Link
http://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2016-03-21/fbi-might-...
Link supporting Diesel's statement.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams
Do you believe in irregardless?
those features are usually well documented and disclosed to the end-user at time of purchase.
If this were the case, there would be no such thing as the end-user hacking into their own systems that they possess and have paid for (for legit purposes that the mfg. is against, likely related to revenue).
That is not worth a response.
I love when people respond by saying they won't respond.
When you are dead, you don’t know that you are dead. It is only difficult for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.
Rather interesting article
Here's a little bit of the latest on this:
https://www.yahoo.com/politics/in-abrupt-cancellation-fbi-un...
When you are dead, you don’t know that you are dead. It is only difficult for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.
Whos Phone is it.
My work phone (iPhone 6s - I freaking HATE it!) has Mobiliron installed on it so they can do whatever they like. Of course our security people are insane.
If you are using a phone supplied by the company then they have every right to demand you use their monitors. It is the same rule for office computers. Deal with it.
Safe
We all need to feel safe, what really is going one is another. You can see the redicalism rising and we never know in whom to believe. Corruption is onthe rise and secrecy is fueling even more radicalism. Money is the real eavil.
HERE!!! HERE!!!
We all need to feel safe, what really is going one is another. You can see the redicalism rising and we never know in whom to believe. Corruption is onthe rise and secrecy is fueling even more radicalism. Money is the real eavil.
I second whatever was said above!
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!
Which Way?
I am pulled in both directions but forced to choose I have to go with maintaining privacy.
Bob: My toys: Nüvi 1390T, Droid X2, Nook Color (rooted), Motorola Xoom, Kindle 2, a Yo-Yo and a Slinky. Gotta have toys.
I am pulled in both
I am pulled in both directions but forced to choose I have to go with believing that the Govt has already hacked into everything, including the Apple Iphone....
I think this is all a front to deceive people... because if the Govt acted on all the information, many would figure out that it has already been compromised...
Simelar to the Enigma and Japanese Codes in WWII... They cracked it, but didn't react to the information on each message for fear of tipping off the bad guys.....
Think about it!
A 2689LMT in both our cars that we love... and a Nuvi 660 with Lifetime Maps that we have had literally forever.... And a 2011 Ford Escape with Nav System that is totally ignored!
security
its nice to have your home and data secure and feeling safe, but as with most things the police arrive after the fact to respond to the crime . we have so many government security groups in place created by politician's that don't swap info with each other so that things like "9-11" happens home land security should never been created ! we had the cia the fbi we are only creating more problems reinventing the wheel , the info on the phone is old the trail of actions on the phone is cold! and as many hackers as the government hires the phone isn't the problem !
Saving Face
"The San Bernardino attack changed the dynamic [between the tech sector and the government], ratcheting up tensions that had simmered ever since Edward Snowden's 2013 revelations that the U.S. was collecting Americans' personal data. Law enforcement officials had long warned that stronger encryption would eventually shut out criminal investigators. Now they had a case with national security implications they could use to press their argument that Apple had gone too far with iOS 8.
"The reason the relationship went south is the government was expecting some degree of accommodation on the part of the technology companies," said Timothy Edgar, the former director of privacy and civil liberties for the White House National Security Staff from 2009 to 2010. "They were expecting the companies to essentially back down and not go forward with new security measures that would make it impossible for you to access devices or communications. They were caught off guard by basically being told to get lost."" [1]
Now a "third party" has stepped up to unlock the device. Looks like the Obama Administration in general and the FBI in particular are attempting to save face, given the unprecedented backlash over their attempts to control what manufacturers put on their devices. As reported in the New York Times, "many in the administration have begun to suspect that the F.B.I. and the Justice Department may have made a major strategic error by pushing the case into the public consciousness."[2] That the government has blundered and is trying to save face is especially apparent, at least to me, when coupled with the fact that the perpetrators of the Paris bombings did not use encrypted communications but instead relied on old school methods, i.e. burner phones.[3]
So, while the anticipated showdown between Apple and the FBI over this one phone has apparently been cancelled, mostly because the government miscalculated the responses of both the tech sector and the populace, this will pop up again. The Justice Department has twelve additional cases around the country asking for similar measures[4][5][7], and also has Whatsapp in its sights as a potential target, because Whatsapp uses end-to-end encryption for all messaging.[6][7]
[1] http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-03-20/the-behind...
[2] http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/technology/in-the-apple-ca...
[3] http://www.ibtimes.com/isis-terrorists-used-disposable-burne...
[4] http://www.wsj.com/articles/justice-department-seeks-to-forc...
[5] http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/23/11097044/us-forcing-apple-...
[6] http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/13/us/politics/whatsapp-encry...
[7] http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/16/interne...
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job." --Douglas Adams
It's more than phones
With the latest attack in Brussels, a politician giving a TV interview was blaming the use of encryption in restricting law enforcement.
Steve - 2 Nuvi 3597
Ah, but you forgot about John McAfee
He offered to crack it for the FBI and it looks like he might have done it!! Apple shoulda played ball, now they have no control of the decryption, lol!! Again it was SB's phone so hadji had no privacy rights!!!