Florida might say goodbye to red light cameras

Gosh.. What will we have to keep us up at all hours of the day and night now?

Moving along:

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/ban-...

but still not fast enough.

Good for them. Redlight cameras were just a money grab anyway.

Once upon a time, they had virtue on their side.

When politicians brought up red-light cameras, they might as well have been talking about good versus evil. You either believed in law enforcement, or you didn't. You were either for safety, or you weren't. The debate was that simple.

Or so they said.

The same arguments are being recycled today, but they no longer wield the same force. The impact has been dulled by insincere motives and inconvenient facts.

"We've seen it over and over again,'' said state Sen. Jeff Brandes, R-St. Petersburg. "It's all about safety until the system starts costing a city some money. Then, magically, it isn't about safety anymore.''

Full story:
http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/romano-cities-gree...

Cameras used for real time monitoring traffic flow and accidents would have been a more productive use and a public service.

+1

thanks for passing on

Getting slow vehicles out of the left lane (moving road blocks) and having law agencies enforce this would help. But, this wouldn't garner monies for cities like RLC's do.

Sooner gone than later.

I wish NYC would get rid of them. We have over several hundred RLC's here (and that's only within city limits - not the whole state)!

I hope they ban them, not that I am terribly optimistic about it given that there is money involved.

If those who are against RLCs are the majority, I say remove them. There is no question about it.

What is silly and stupid, is the continual insinuation that they cause accidents, wrongfully ticket people, etc.

They have technology that allows cars to park themselves, cruise behind other vehicles while the driver shaves or does makeup or sends emails or texts. Not everyone wants it, so if the majority don't want it, get rid of it.

Too bad it doesn't happen nation wide.

Nuvi1300WTGPS

only 49 more to go

Yesterday on my way home, I saw a car run a red light in Orlando at a RLC and get pulled over by a cop. The cop would give him a ticked for a violation of Statutes and the RLC would send him a ticket for a violation of Code. Definitely something wrong here.

Please explain your thinking as I don't understand the position.

He's going to get two tickets. The cop writes for violating the statute, "failure to stop". The red light will also send him a ticket for a "code" violation, since they can't write tickets for statute violations.

Good.

If I could post a Grumpy Cat saying "good" picture I would.

Florida Statutes & Codes seem to indicate that they'd only have to pay the one issued by the cop. They'll get a letter in the mail that they could respond to with the cops citation. I know that that's the way it works over here in TX.

Florida Section 316.0083 1(d)1 reads:
"(d)1. The owner of the motor vehicle involved in the violation is responsible and liable for paying the uniform traffic citation issued for a violation of s. 316.074(1) or s. 316.075(1)(c)1. when the driver failed to stop at a traffic signal, unless the owner can establish that:
...
d. A uniform traffic citation was issued by a law enforcement officer to the driver of the motor vehicle for the alleged violation of s. 316.074(1) or s. 316.075(1)(c)1."
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Displ...

As you said, he would get both. He would then have to prove he paid the one issued by the cop to get out of the other one. If you are going to court on the one from the cop that may still be an issue with the other one.

It's not passed yet. Let's see how it plays out.

Could be one of those bills that are just to make us think they are trying to help.

It a bill that has 81.000 pages and you have to pass it to see what's on it!

for Maryland.
It's FAR too profitable for the politicians in a State which already has very high income taxes to begin with.

Wake up America. We're screwing ourselves!
Fred

Okay, so your city or even state one way or another decides to remove staionary cameras (just like we did in Cleveland).
However there are people that are always trying circumvent situations just like camera removal.
I truly believe cameras make so much money for cities that they just can't let them go, a simple bend or distortion of law or even the will of the people opens the door for the Dragon.

http://raycomgroup.worldnow.com/story/31166920/dragon-cams-o...

All worked up over a $40 fine, when in Calif. it's over $500, that's funny. $40 per speeder translates into profits? imho that's at a price point where an avg. worker can afford one violation a day--people pay more than that daily, just to park at work.

America is asleep? Talk about hyperbole.

It's like, here's a list of locations, where not to speed, to not get fined $40. WTH more do you want, a pba card in the mail? lol

http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Agencies/police/speedcamera...

The average worker can afford $40 a day in tickets...
The average worker pays more than $40 a day to park,,,,

WHAT ALTERNATE UNIVERSE DO YOU LIVE IN?

Your arguments never make any sense to me. They seem to be full of jibber-jabber.

At what point do we say, gosh, if we speed at these locations, we are assessed a $40 fine. Let me do something that might be obvious, rather than to claim to be a victim. Do not exceed the limit by 12 mph, and wow, no more fine.

Let me guess--you're one of those folks who question if 12 mph, is 12 mph.

But there are many, who would rather complain, than to identify the root of the problem--it's there in the mirror of your bathroom.

My son got one of the speeding tickets in DC with a car registered to my wife, it was $50. We paid it and it was no big deal except that it was her first ticket. I haven't gotten one or checked but I heard the price in Florida is over $200. That difference in price can cause people to fight the idea of having the cameras.

suburbia my wife got a $20 parking ticket. Her first impulse was to get out the credit card and pay the fine.

It was actually inconvenient for her to feed the meter, and so she let it expire.

I simply think there isn't much validity to believing that when you are fined, you are a victim.

imho we should behave in a manner that we would teach our children. Would we want our own children to be crybabies who cannot be exposed to the real world, and always blame others for things that were within their control? (rhetorical as some would say yes)

Now you are citing parking tickets as being in the same league as RLC and Speed cameras.

I think you are so righteous in your belief that redlight/speed cameras are the greatest nanny tool in the world and we should all just accept their assumption of our guilt. Sorry. Too many times has it been shown here that those behind the cameras are not concerned with safety, but only the money generated.

I am not saying that you don't deserve a ticket if you go through a red light. My issues are with shortening the yellow light and the amount of the ticket. These are just money making and shortening the yellow causes people to slam on the breaks.

If you don't change the length of the yellow and someone runs the light they deserve the ticket.

Is definitely unethical, and that would create a safety hazard. Pretty much contrary to the purpose of the signal in the first place.

I went through a rlc intersection on yellow again yesterday, making a left turn. Again, the result will be the same. It is simply not possible to produce a video of my car being behind the stop line, when the light turned red. My vehicle crossed on green.

There are some here on this forum who describe the traffic signal as being a very mysterious and unpredictable device, as if a normal driver cannot understand nor adjust for green, yellow, and red. This is simply preposterous.

Can you imagine on US Rt. 1, the speed limit is 55, and the yellow is over 5 sec. If that were shortened by 2 sec., it would be very plausible to have accidents as there are some nervous nellies out there who cannot control their vehicles and are afraid of yellow (I have seen people stop on yellow, meaning their vehicle is completely stopped on a yellow--very unintelligent behavior). A rational person would simply continue, and realize, something is wrong with that signal. If it happened again, go back and video it, everyone knows the speed limit is 55, and the yellow > 5 sec.

So we are in total agreement. It would be like playing hockey, and having the blue line move while people are engaged in a match, and suddenly the play is offside.

There should be a section on this forum: "I got a ticket and did not deserve it, here is my video to prove it."

You are so full of "examples" that have no backing, what you say is like listening to the wind howl.

@Red Revrnd

+ 1.

The number of people who race to the leftmost lane is amazing. You would think that there was money to be made by staying in that lane.

To a comment by Jonnatash4

While the "fine" is different between Parking Tickets and Redlight/Speeding Tickets, I see them is the same category: Someone has broken a law using a vehicle and the owner of the vehicle gets a ticket - usually with visual proof that includes a picture of the license plate of such vehicle.

Note that in the case of parking tickets there is not a picture of the meter proving that the ticket was justified (at least not in my town where the all too often parking tickets to my grandson are sent).

I have never seen a Parking Enforcement person give any consideration as to how long a car is parked illegally. They don't wait 5 minutes to see if the person will return and remove the vehicle. They could, but they need to move on to the next illegally parked vehicle. I have yet to hear any person on this site rail against Parking Tickets.

On the other hand most speeding tickets seem to have something like 12 MPH above the speed limit.

Both generate income for the municipality and I see nothing wrong with that.

How many of the services that your municipality provides are you willing to give up?

I have never heard a complaint about Baltimore County abusing their speed camera system. Not saying they don't, but it certainly does not seem pervasive. This is different than previously in Baltimore City where some judges were throwing out over half the contested speed camera tickets. Once the Government starts abusing the system, it is really hard to not think it is only about the money.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/the-buzz-florida-politics/bill...

A bill to bar cities and counties from installing cameras at intersections to catch red light runners, narrowly passed its final committee stop in the Florida House and is now heading to the full House.

And for those that want to watch the progress on the Senate side:

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2016/0168

@ jgermann

In my town, parking tickets are issued by police department employees, maybe not always actual police officers who carry guns, but they are LEGALLY employees of the police department, and not a civilian company who is sharing in the profits generated by the cameras.

Also if a car is parked illegally, there can be NO question as to where it was parked, it's right in front of the legally authorized officer.

True, money from tickets goes to our community services, but camera tickets seem to be, from most reports, solely generated for the camera companies, with a small share going to the city.

So, no, I don't agree that parking tickets are in the same category as RLC/Speed camera tickets.

In my wife's case, she made a decision, she was not able to excuse herself to feed the meter, and realized, she was potentially facing $20. Long story short, she was at an appt. at a hospital. The interesting thing, is that now, the municipality has built a physical wall (this opens us up to lots of jokes given Trump/Pope yesterday), to prevent pedestrian access, from that municipal lot, to the hospital. The reason is the hospital has a garage for patient parking, even valet, but it is expensive. People would rather pay $2, than $12+.

I jumped it last time as I was unaware and my son had an appt. (Nemours) I think a child should understand such a decision--you had a specialist appt., your mom parked where there was a meter, rather than add more money to it, she decided to stay at the appt., and as a result, she was fined. We need to pay the fine. My son is 2, he doesn't understand, he thought we could fight it, said our Constitutional rights were violated, but I told him no, you do the crime, you pay the fine. And he needs to go back and read the Constitution.

Honestly, I do find the Calif. fines of roughly $600 to be unreasonable, but not $40.

We have sewage and county taxes both due by 3/31 and 4/1--this is a hefty chunk of change and I hate taking it out of the bank and paying. Then, July 31 we have school taxes. I have never had a child in the school system, yet I have paid this tax for the last 13, now 14 years. I am ok with the taxes, they provide the ice hockey rink in walking distance, the police force which protected Tiger Woods at the US Open a couple years ago, and pick up the trash 2X per week, and the leaves in the fall. And when speeders pass through or drive drunk, yes, these all go to our town. Why wouldn't they?

Honestly, I find this extremely funny. A 2 year old is arguing with you to fight a ticket and "he needs to GO BACK and read the constitution"? As always you make up stuff to fit your argument.

I'm done with your make-believe world that you live in.

As Florida has had a reputation of playing it fast and loose with yellow light timing, it sounds like a good idea to shut the scam down. Here in New York, they have been quite diligent on maintaining adequate yellow light timing. In some cases even adding a little extra to avoid signs of impropriety. The thorniest issue has been with right-on-red turns. There is still the ongoing question, for which there does not seem to be an authoritative answer, as to how long constitutes a legal stop before turning. I myself do not even test it and wait at a red light to make a turn. You are NOT required to make a right on red even if legal to do so. It may pi$$ off the people behind me but they are not going to pay an RLC violation I might receive.

In comparing Parking vs RLC/Speed, you seem to be asserting that that the difference is solely because the illegally parked vehicle is right in front of the legally authorized officer. You did not comment on my statement that there is no leeway given like there are with Automated Traffic Enforcement (ATE) cameras. I would have thought that comparative logic would have made you decide that, perhaps in that aspect, parking tickets were more oppressive than RLC/Speeding tickets, as many municipalities have a "grace period" for their ATE cameras.

When you say money from tickets ... generated ... a small share going to the city, you are destroying the typical objection that ATE opponents have now started using - since all of their arguments based on constitutionality have been overrules by the courts.

FACTS are not "insinuation." I was wrongfully ticketed. In the end it cost me far more (in lost work and resources) than the ticket itself cost to successfully fight it, but I did on principle. The system was stacked for me to prove that I wasn't guilty instead of presuming innocence until proven otherwise beyond shadow of doubt. Many others have had similar experiences.

Having just retired from working in the District of Columbia I can state that in that city (and many others as well) those handing out parking citations are NOT employees of or related to employment by any law enforcement agency with two exceptions. The city Public Works Department is responsible for parking enforcement and the booting of vehicles. The two exceptions are the Federal Protective Service which is GSA's police force and the city's Protective Service which is responsible for internal policing of District Government buildings and their parking areas. The Feds do the same thing for their federal buildings.

Actually it is fun to watch the two groups get into turf wars around the Reagan and District building. One side of the street is under federal control, the rest of the area is under District control and the District will ticket and impound federal vehicles illegally parked in their area. The entrance to the underground parking for the Reagan Building is in the middle of a District street and they will not allow federal employees to block access to the street while attempting to enter or leave the garage.

I don't care how much the fines are, I am 100% against them. And no, I don't speed >12 mph, rarely do I speed >5 mph, though yes, that is still speeding.

My dad got 2 tix in the City of Boston. Now that is a mean town, when I was young we got into fist fights there, and those boys were tough in the market.

So I said dad, you did violate the law, why not pay the tix? He said I will if I have to, but I just want to write them a letter (this was around 2006--who writes a letter, everything had been online for at least 7-8 years at the time). He said he misread the sign.

To my surprise, but not his, he was excused from the violations. The same thing happened to him (excused) on the Garden State Parkway, where he exited at an EZPass only exit (no cash whatsoever, was fined over $100).

This forum tends to be very all or nothing, maybe life is a little more analog than it is digital. Again, assuming everyone here has kids, how do you teach them, certainly not the way you conduct yourself here (not everyone, some).

Ain't that the truth. We seem to be living in a binary society these days. Everything is right or wrong, Left or Right, etc. I wonder whatever happened to the Moderates ...

With the RLC bill stalled in the Senate it is unlikely that we'll get this legislation passed this year, although having the full House approve it will certainly be a move in the right direction.

I think I see ATS's lobbyist's fingerprints on the Senate lack-of-action.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/os-red-light-ca...

The fact that so few people actually write letters any longer may be why it got attention. It has been publicized that a politician will take a mailed letter more seriously than an internet posted comment. Since it takes time and a stamp to send a letter, the person sending it is assumed to consider the issue extremely important.