License Plate Readers

 

I found this to be very interesting. Not sure what I think of this practice - although I think the country needs to be discussing this technology.

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/48/4884.asp

The Wikipedia article is at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number_plate_recogni...

I have heard of a town that uses ALPR to keep track of cars that enter and leave the town. What caught my eye was that the residents themselves raised the funds for them because of a rash of armed burglaries.

And I suppose

This should surprise us?

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

Accuracy of plate readers and their database

Many people, including police officers who use it, believe that plate readers and the database they access are completely infallible. It must be infallible if we are going to permit its use! If it makes mistakes its use would be unacceptable, would it not?!

This is a true story several years ago, and it happened to us personally - it is not a rumor or second-hand story:

My friend and I were driving in separate cars in Centre Island NY when we passed a stationary plate reader at a police station. They dispatched a patrol car to chase and pull my friend over.

The officer did not explain what the problem was and he ordered her to drive back to the police station and come inside. I followed and found her in tears inside the station.

The officer explained that the plate reader showed a "hit" that she had no insurance. She provided a bonafide proof of insurance card. The officer did not believe it was valid, and he would not let her go. She was so intimidated that she couldn't properly speak to defend herself.

I discussed the problem with both of them and found that she had changed insurance companies 6 months previously. Every time this happens, state law requires that the old insurance company must automatically make a report of a lapse of insurance to the state, and the state reports this information to the national database that the plate readers use. The start of the new insurance company's policy had somehow been missed by the database. (Garbage In = Garbage Out!!!!)

She was going to be arrested since she could not be permitted to drive away with no insurance. I argued with the officer (at my peril) that she was a reliable law-abiding citizen and that if she was arrested, he would really look bad in court when she provided the judge with the proof of insurance. He could have been sued for false arrest. He finally admitted that the database could have been wrong and permitted us to leave without an arrest or summons. We were detained 40 minutes and we were very lucky to be free. I believed that we would both be arrested.

Other police departments in our area also have plate readers on patrol cars and stationary locations, and none of them ever showed a hit on her plate. Needless to say, we have not returned to Centre Island.

Can you imagine the large number of reports made to this database every day, and the large number of people who have access to make these reports? Changing insurance companies is routine, and hundreds of thousands (or millions) do it every day. This is just a single issue. The issues covered by the database must be endless.

The conclusion is that it has to have mistakes - it can't possibly be 100% accurate. Exactly what is the procedure for citizens like my friend to find out what is in the database about them, and how do we go about correcting any errors? Do the people who designed and use the database every day even think about possible errors?

dobs108 mad

Fixed plate reader locations

jgermann wrote:

I have heard of a town that uses ALPR to keep track of cars that enter and leave the town.

Kings Point NY
Great Neck NY
Centre Island NY

These locations are near Long Island Sound, so it is possible to install a plate reader on every single access road to the area.

What Part Of 1984

Haven't we come to grips with yet?

Our country, seems to be hell bent to manage others lives and affairs when those enacting these laws / regulations can't seem to adequately mannage their own affairs!

We have met the enemy and he is us!

---Pogo

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

Aren't these commonplace for

Aren't these commonplace for tolling on turnpikes and toll roads?

city of houston uses them for meter maids

They'll drive around and use them to find cars that have overstayed a parking zone.

Philadelphia

cratecookie wrote:

They'll drive around and use them to find cars that have overstayed a parking zone.

Philadelphia Parking Authority has been using these for years, before they became commonplace with PD's across the country. They use them to find, boot, and tow, ticket scofflaws. Now it seems every town has police car or two with them.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Tolling

GPS_Rider wrote:

Aren't these commonplace for tolling on turnpikes and toll roads?

Yes, plate readers are used for toll billing in the state of Washington. For example, I live on the east coast and have an EZ-Pass for tolling. They don't take EZ-Pass but have another similar west coast pass. There are no toll booths at certain locations. If I plan to drive to Washington I could open an account with them and get their transponder, but without doing that the plate reader will send me a bill without any penalty.

I have not heard that the toll plate readers are connected to the National database mentioned above.

dobs108 smile

Available as open source -- run your own!

Got a window looking out on to a street? Run your own license plate reader!

http://www.openalpr.com/

https://github.com/openalpr/openalpr

The first is a pretty much drag and drop deal, with the second one requiring more work.

--
Nuvi 2460, 680, DATUM Tymserve 2100, Trimble Thunderbolt, Ham radio, Macintosh, Linux, Windows

There are more popping up

There are more popping up every day.

I thought that these have

I thought that these have been around for some time. They use these to check parked cars that need boots.

Plate Readers

There are 2 going into Freehold Raceway Mall

Freeport, Long Island, NY on CBS evening news

On February 20th, the CBS Evening News had video about the installation of plate readers at every entrance to the Village of Freeport, on the south shore of Long Island NY.

Freeport is ten miles east of New York City, and major east-west roads such as Sunrise Highway and Merrick Road run through the village. Commuters to New York City from further east on Long Island must pass through Freeport for less than five minutes going to and coming from work. It seems that Freeport has cast itself as a "bridge troll" on this commuters' route.

CBS reports an explosion of "hits" from the database the readers are connected to, for everything from "stolen car" to "suspended registration." The number of "hits" is so great they can only act on a small percentage of them.

It should be remembered that every time a driver is late paying for car insurance, a report is required to be sent to this national database, that the car's registration is suspended, according to New York law. It is probably the same in other states.

The question is, when the bill is paid, is a similar report sent that cancels the suspension report? Is there a backlog on these positive reports? Have they forgotten to send the report that the bill was paid?

The CBS report says that the number of suspended registration "hits" is so high that it cannot be believed to be accurate. I say that it can't possibly be accurate!

Here is the video from the CBS Evening News:

http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/suburban-new-york-village-depl...

Here is the text version:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/license-plate-readers-a-double-e...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/long-island-police-overloaded-by...

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/11/18/ring-of-steel-license...

dobs108 smile

New york civil liberties union opinion

maybe

With all this reading our government seems insistent on doing all this reading, maybe they will become educated.

--
Never argue with a pig. It makes you look foolish and it anoys the hell out of the pig!

BP has a bank of cams on I-19 going towards Nogales

There's a bunch of them all different looking, maybe testing different models?

Ohio

When my town in Ohio first got ALPR's, they were paid for by Homeland Security and citizens were told it would help find terrorists.

To date, no terrorists have been apprehended with those camera's. And I"m sure the police officials were not misleading the citizens in any way when they were introduced.

Today, there are few cop cars without those cameras pointing forwards, backwards and out the sides of the cop cars.

People in general don't like to be watched. Ever hear a little kid complain to a parent about a sibling "She's looking at me!!"
I have no doubt all the surveillance cameras, recordings and license plate readers are enough to set off some of the mentally unstable to do bad things.

Mud Season

They wouldn't work up here...at least in late winter/early spring. This is an old article in our paper but it happens every year. Heck, I can't even see out my back window now mrgreen

Note #2

http://www.examiner.com/article/mud-season-north-idaho

Arrested...

"Dobs 108" posted in part...

dobs108 wrote:

She was going to be arrested since she could not be permitted to drive away with no insurance. I argued with the officer (at my peril) that she was a reliable law-abiding citizen and that if she was arrested, he would really look bad in court when she provided the judge with the proof of insurance. He could have been sued for false arrest. He finally admitted that the database could have been wrong and permitted us to leave without an arrest or summons. We were detained 40 minutes and we were very lucky to be free. I believed that we would both be arrested. mad

Yes... You should consider yourself lucky considering how innocent, weaponless victims have been shot and killed (murdered) by police for a lot less.

There are many web sites that report on situations such as the above. Carlos Miller's "Photography Is NOT A Crime" (PINAC"

https://photographyisnotacrime.com/

is one such web site. What you'll read on there will amaze you.

Nuvi1300WTGPS

--
I'm not really lost.... just temporarily misplaced!

Recent news

it is always about getting their money!

it is always about getting their money!
by whatever means possible!

Thanks for the info!

K6RTM, K6KCC here.

Thanks much for the links. Appreciated.

73's,
Gouchybear
de K6KCC

license plate reader and 1st admendment

To be clear...

blake7mstr wrote:

try this link
[License Plate Reader And 1st Admendment]
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151016/06220432555/license-plate-reader-companies-lose-case-seeking-to-have-anti-alpr-law-declared-unconstitutional.shtml

Because many people will read the previous post and jump to the conclusion that the courts decision hinged in some way on the First Amendment, let me say that the court concluded that the licence plate reader company did not have standing to sue as it did. The appeals court did not consider any First Amendement issues.

And

jgermann wrote:
blake7mstr wrote:

try this link
[License Plate Reader And 1st Admendment]
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151016/06220432555/license-plate-reader-companies-lose-case-seeking-to-have-anti-alpr-law-declared-unconstitutional.shtml

Because many people will read the previous post and jump to the conclusion that the courts decision hinged in some way on the First Amendment, let me say that the court concluded that the licence plate reader company did not have standing to sue as it did. The appeals court did not consider any First Amendement issues.

the courts have ruled many times that a vehicle in a public area has no expectation of privacy regarding anything that can be observed from outside the vehicle.

--
Illiterate? Write for free help.

LPR

These things are slowly phasing out toll booths in my area, now you either have EZPass or get a bill in the mail for the toll. One bridge here is $1.75 more if they have to send a bill. (as opposed to deducted from an EZPass account)

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .

Neck Bar Code

I'm hoping soon to get the bar code on my neck like Jessica Alba had in Dark Angel. Or Luke Wilson had on his arm in Ideocracy. evil

Being Jewish, I prefer the neck to the arm.

2005

Good old California used ALPR since 2005, maybe earlier.

At the end of this year

At the end of this year Pennsylvania is no longer going to issue registration plate stickers. IIRC I read they were also going to help (with a grant) PDs across the state get license plate readers. Between the PLRs and the laptops most cars already have they'll know if your plate is valid or not.

In the past year I've noticed more and more police cars with the LPRs on them. I think they're here to stay.

--
. 2 Garmin DriveSmart 61 LMT-S, Nuvi 2689, 2 Nuvi 2460, Zumo 550, Zumo 450, Uniden R3 radar detector with GPS built in, includes RLC info. Uconnect 430N Garmin based, built into my Jeep. .