new & interesting places for your GPS

Is The Replacement For Stand Alone Automobile GPS A Small Tablet From Garmin Or TomTom?

 

As posted above, could the replacement for stand alone automobile GPS as we know it currently simply be a small tablet with a GPS receiver built in? Some might also have wifi and/or cellular connectivity. Anyway, the end user buys the device and windshield mount and then selects if they want Garmin, TomTom, or Magellan navigation software. In fact, since these would, or at least could, be multi-function devices, they could still be used for entertainment via MP3 players, satellite radio receivers, or even just internet radio like Slacker or Pandora.

While this might sound far fetched to some, really we are just about there now, for those that want to go that way. The first time I saw one of the newer Garmin Nuvis I thought about how thin it is and how similar it seemed to an iPod Touch in many respects.

Page 1>>

Tablet

A tablet would be nice because their economies of scale would push prices down and performance up. But for me the main problem is that they're not really designed to be used in a car. The screen is often very reflective and they don't have external contacts for a powered mount or even just notches for a basic cradle.

However, Garmin is working on Android devices and one such model is being introduced in Asia. It even has an optional HD camera for car DVR purposes.

We don't know if Garmin will bring something like that to the US market, but IMO Garmin will likely start making "smart" PNDs. Digital camera manufacturers, like Nikon, have already introduced Android digital cameras. The future is connected, smart devices with at least WiFi.

CES is coming in early January, so we should know then.

Advances in Technology

I think that we are in the early stages of another technological leap forward with PNDs. Physical limitations like non-glare glass or external power are minor issues compared to how to make the product affordable to the masses. The two biggest limitations for mobile devices are usage/roaming fees and the loss of anonymity. That will require cooperation between the hardware, software and communication companies.

Then the marketing agency has to come up with a way to make you accept paying $0.025 every time you run a GPS app, and how to make you feel comfortable that someone else knows exactly where you are.

as stated above there are

as stated above there are alot of factors that need to work in sync to make the device work well.

--
A GPS can take you where You want to go but never where you WANT to be.

I personally think cellular

I personally think cellular phones are set to replace standalone GPS units and inbuilt satnav systems. In fact, I envision a car without a radio at all. Just a volume knob and/or buttons on the steering wheel and perhaps a "take or hang up call" button. The area to put the phone could be angled for visibility, be made of the same stuff as those sticky pads so the phone would stay put, and use inductive charging to eliminate both plugging the phone in as well as battery drain due to using it as nav. The car would just talk to the phone using bluetooth.

I already stream music with Pandora during most of my driving anyway, and luckily I have little enough voice traffic that I don't usually have to take calls.

I have already noticed that Google (I have an Android phone) gets better traffic information than my Garmin nuvi does. If it weren't for battery drain issues and that I doubt I could find a mount I'd like, I might consider using only the phone. Stuff like Google Now would make that even easier.

Upgrades would be easier too, since new nav/maps/whatever is just a download away or simply delivered live over the cell network. Plus I upgrade my phone every 2-3 years, whereas I have driven the same car for 15 years now. That's unusual I know, but I still think there are some advantages in the area of easier upgrading.

I bet you Garmin's marketing demographics show a shift to using cell phones for everything that they can do rather than standalone devices already happening amongst those less than 30 years old. Think about how quickly the market transitioned away from cellular phones built into cars. Since the GPS market is a bit different I think there may remain a small market for it, but I hope Garmin has a solid plan for when the standalone and inbuilt auto market craps out.

I don't think it'll be tablets--too large and unwieldy for the car, plus cell phones are essentially becoming small tablets anyway.

too many assumptions

aackthpt wrote:

I personally think cellular phones are set to replace standalone GPS units and inbuilt satnav systems. In fact, I envision a car without a radio at all. Just a volume knob and/or buttons on the steering wheel and perhaps a "take or hang up call" button. The area to put the phone could be angled for visibility, be made of the same stuff as those sticky pads so the phone would stay put, and use inductive charging to eliminate both plugging the phone in as well as battery drain due to using it as nav. The car would just talk to the phone using bluetooth.

You are making too many assumptions about how the cellular providers supply service.Cellular, or even WiFi for that matter is not everywhere. There will always be large areas of this country and the world for that matter where the only service will be via satellite - and I'm not talking about the oceans either. Most cellular service requires one of two things. Either there have to be enough people in the area to begin with or there have to be enough people that travel through the area using their paid services to result in a return in investment. They don't put in cellular service because someone might want it, there already has to be a demand that will pay the $1,000,000+ cost of putting in a single cell site. Stop believing in what people tell you and look at where there is coverage and, more importantly, where there isn't before you start making your prognostications.

--
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy, 35th U.S. president

Assumed bad idea

I am going to assume that this is a bad idea. smile

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?71izcs760s492of

--
Nuvi 3790LMT, Nuvi 760 Lifetime map, Lifetime NavTraffic, Garmin E-Trex Legend Just because "Everyone" drives badly does not mean you have to.

ROFL

onestep wrote:

I am going to assume that this is a bad idea. smile

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?71izcs760s492of

Well, yes, putting a full-blown iPad or Galaxy Tab up there is going to be right up there in the history of Dumb Ideas grin

That said, though, "mini-tablets" and "tablet hybrids" are starting to find their place--the iPad Mini and Galaxy Note series come to mind--and screens on smartphones are starting to get big enough that they're almost or in some cases right at traditional GPSr dimensions (and thus could be readable--though probably you should keep your eyes on the road, hehe).

As for the "Oh noes what will smartphone users do without wifi or cell?"--Well, those of us who are serious about using a smartphone as a primary or even backup GPSr use apps that allow map storage on the device itself--and there's an increasingly broad spectrum of these, everything from the traditional Big Players (Garmin, TomTom and iGO) to some new players that focus mostly on smartphone apps (Navigon and Sygic and CoPilot Live come to mind here--even though Garmin technically owns Navigon now) to free, crowd-sourced options using OpenMaps (more than a few of these).

There are a few areas where smartphone GPS "carry your maps" apps could use some work still--voice alerts being a biggie, but TomTom especially is filling this void and I expect more apps to have customisable announcements soon.

That said...I also don't want the traditional GPSr to go away, because there are times a traditional GPSr still works better and I do see some areas where they'll never really go away (particularly in trucking, which does have specialised routing requirements--particularly if one is running hazmat).

I'd like to see some of the stuff showing up in smartphones start showing up in traditional GPSrs (one of them being the use of navsat constellations other than the GPS system--dual GPS/GLONASS receivers are starting to become common in smartphones (partly because Russia charges a Very Ow import tariff if a device doesn't have GLONASS capability) which allows a more accurate fix, and the Galileo (EU-operated third-gen navsat) system will be coming online in several years. I don't think that a GPSr should have a secondary capability of playing Angry Birds, necessarily, but I do see a bit of "blending" on what traditional GPSrs and smartphones can do.

(Which is not really all that surprising if you know how most modern GPSrs are made. Quite a number of them basically run a very stripped-down version of Windows CE with the GPS program being really the only program that runs as the OS "interface"; Windows CE is in the same OS family as Windows Phone 7. As non-Microsoft-locked WinCE gets end-of-lifed, I'd not be shocked to start seeing companies use very stripped versions of Android as the base and have the navigation program as the OS "interface".)

Hmmm.

I think what you will see is the big phones and small tablets will bring models that have great GPS chipsets (like Sirf III) and antennas, with their display, user input, speakers, and mic they will do it all then once you are at the grocery store will help you pick items that are on special while listening to Gangnam Style.

A winter gotcha--

I've got a Nuvi hard-wired into the car. I also have an iPhone (4s).

Found a new gotcha with the iPhone recently...

It's winter (or as close to winter as we get in Silicon Valley -- that means outside temps below 50 F).

I wear gloves in the morning to keep my hands warm; I've got a short drive to work, so unless there's a lot of traffic, the engine doesn't warm up enough to throw heat into the passenger compartment until I'm almost there.

The Nuvi has an old-fashioned touch screen (resistive touchscreen).

The iPhone has a modern capacitive multi-touch screen.

Guess which one works with gloves on! The old-fashioned Nuvi touch screen works just fine. The iPhone doesn't know I'm there.

Let's hear it for that old technology!

--
2008 Mini Cooper S, Nuvi 2460, 680, DATUM Tymserve 2100, Trimble Thunderbolt, Ham radio, Macintosh, Linux, Windows

You are so antiquated! You

You are so antiquated! You need to get the new tech!
Touch screen gloves. igloves. http://www.agloves.com/

Wait a second. You said it gets down to 50F and you need gloves?!??!?!?!?!?!?

For me you need to get down to about 30F for gloves, 50F is shorts weather.

--
Nuvi 3790LMT, Nuvi 760 Lifetime map, Lifetime NavTraffic, Garmin E-Trex Legend Just because "Everyone" drives badly does not mean you have to.

Yes, But Not Sure It Will Be from Garmin or TomTom

An Apple iPad Mini with GPS capability, internal or external via Bad Elf or Garmin GLO, and an app such as Garmin North America or Navigon should be a pretty good navigation tool.

Somebody will have an auto mount, check with RAM, they have just about everything.

--
Montana 600, GPSMAP60CSx, fenix, Bad Elf, iPhone 4S, iPad2, Yaesu VX-8R w/GPS, MacBookPro, all sorts of maps.

My android is already a very

My android is already a very good GPS. All that it needs is the ability to store a large offline map. So I bought a 32GB memory card thinking this would allow me to store the entire USA map. I was wrong.

There is some weird limit on how much of the google map I can "make available offline".

Why?

Anyone know how to get around this limit and store 32GB worth of the google map on the android?

Get Google to change the programming of Google Map

goboymd wrote:

My android is already a very good GPS. All that it needs is the ability to store a large offline map. So I bought a 32GB memory card thinking this would allow me to store the entire USA map. I was wrong.

There is some weird limit on how much of the google map I can "make available offline".

Why?

Anyone know how to get around this limit and store 32GB worth of the google map on the android?

Get Google to change the programming of Google Maps.

Seriously - this is intentional on their part, so they can send you ads while you are getting the map info. And downloading the maps over, and over, and over again with time - so you see more ads. That's why it is "free".

If you want to store your maps for offline use, look at other GPS/mapping apps. The downside of that is that the free maps seem to be of lesser quality, so you *may* end up buying a paid app in the end.

With best wishes,
- Tom -

--
XXL540, GO LIVE 1535, GO 500

Android Traffic

Also, the downloading of maps is how Google gets their traffic information. If you don't keep downloading the maps, then you're no longer providing them with information.

(It's not JUST advertising.)

--
Kenwood DNX710EX (powered by Garmin) Garmin eTrex 20 Florida Trailheads POI File

not hardly

fcoulter wrote:

Also, the downloading of maps is how Google gets their traffic information. If you don't keep downloading the maps, then you're no longer providing them with information.

(It's not JUST advertising.)

I doubt very seriously that Google uses download activity for maps as a gauge of traffic conditions. If I'm sitting in my office or house and download a map to my phone or tablet how would that be used to determine traffic? I'm not moving and I'm not even in a vehicle so therefore I have no impact on traffic and they can't distinguish if the connection is made between a WiFi connection or cellular other than knowing which route the request took.

Google, and others use other methods of determining traffic flow and density. The two most used are inductive loops on the pavement and Bluetooth signals from handsets. Inductive loops count the number of vehicles crossing the loops field and determine speeds by the number of vehicles in a given period. Receivers along the road pick up signals from the Bluetooth pairings in devices and then measure the amount of time it takes for the same device to reach the next receiver.

--
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy, 35th U.S. president

Full Offline Maps

Bear in mind that Google is not the only (or best) source of offline maps. Check ArcGIS Explorer Desktop for some other options.

Jack of all trades--

Tablets (and smartphones) do a lot of things, and will get better at a lot of them.

But...

A dedicated car nav device can rely on much that the tablet can't -- how about a HUGE battery, an everlasting source of electrical power while the car is running? Wouldn't every tablet and smartphone designer on the planet love that?

Given the availability of power, and relaxed size requirements (doesn't have to be the thinnest around), you can have a good receiver, designed to pick those sat signals out of the weeds, and a matching antenna -- things you aren't going to find in a smartphone or tablet, because they take up too much space and power. Same with setting aside a few GB of storage for maps.

Yeah, my Nuvi can't play Angry Birds, but then I don't have it on my iPhone, either.

I'll keep going with a dedicated device.

--
2008 Mini Cooper S, Nuvi 2460, 680, DATUM Tymserve 2100, Trimble Thunderbolt, Ham radio, Macintosh, Linux, Windows

nothing is worse than using

nothing is worse than using your phone allday as a phone and then forgetting you car adapter when its time to use that same phone with low battery as a gps device. let a phone be a phone and garmin be a garmin.

--
A GPS can take you where You want to go but never where you WANT to be.

Bad Idea II

I agree - interesting concept but bad idea. I really enjoy using my nuvi2460LMT.

--
romanviking

gps, tablets etc

I have tried a couple of apps for my ipad but none of them seem as handy as my old 765t. Sometimes complicated is not better.

might i add how will we be

might i add how will we be able to utilize our great poi's content from this site to our phone smile

--
A GPS can take you where You want to go but never where you WANT to be.

poi

good point i love my poi's from this site

--
nuvi 2757LM

Who needs a smart phone?

You realize that not everyone uses or wants a smart phone. Right off, I cannot think of an “older” friend that actually uses one. In practice, I suspect many of them do. They are just not glued to the screen like some people.

Most tablets run much longer on battery power...

k6rtm wrote:

A dedicated car nav device can rely on much that the tablet can't -- how about a HUGE battery, an everlasting source of electrical power while the car is running? Wouldn't every tablet and smartphone designer on the planet love that?

Most tablets will run much longer on battery power than most PNDs. Tablets have much larger battery capacity than most PNDs, and even though their larger display uses more power, tablets typically run two or three times as long on battery as a small PND (larger PNDs usually have less run time on battery). This test http://www.geeky-gadgets.com/tablet-battery-life-comparison-... shows average tablet battery life is about 8 hours for web browsing. Even if nav tasks use more power, I've never seen any automotive PND that lasts anywhere near that long on battery (not too surprising since they are intended to be plugged in to power).

And there is no difference at all in using a car power adapter. In fact, most newer PNDs even use the same Micro-USB as most tablets (except Samsung & iPad, which use a proprietary cable, but the other end of that proprietary cable is standard USB A make, which plugs into a 12vDC USB charger like this: http://pisces.bbystatic.com/image2/BestBuy_US/images/product...). All but a handful of tablets can be charged in a car using a USB car power adapter like this Griffin PowerJolt.

I think a more significant practical problem with tablets was mentioned by "class3" here:

class3 wrote:

The screen is often very reflective...

...and to that I would add, not just often, just about always. You would think that there would be better availability of highly anti-glare coatings (or at least screen protectors, but there aren't many options to significantly reduce glare). What "should" work best would be a polarized filter, but evidently a polarized filter is incompatible with the type of display used by most tablets, and would cause it to be blank.

Then again, some of the newest high-end Garmin PNDs have glass screens, and though I haven't tested one of those outside, I wonder if they will have similar problems with reflectivity and glare?

These high-end Garmin PNDs with glass screens also are capacitive touch, so they have the same drawbacks that creates, too.
________

As for mounting, especially regarding hot mounts, I would have to agree that tablet makers have not made sufficient provision to mount these devices to something. This omission seems especially glaring considering that practically every TV set has a "VESA mount" on the back. Most of the mounting devices I seen are pretty "mickey mouse" because they are designed to work with just about any tablet, and also to not permanently attach to the tablet. The best solution would be a permanently attached "bracket receiver" that's as thin as possible. For tablet like the iPad that are very difficult to open (back panel is not easily removed), that may be a step most people don't want to take. It would be a lot easier for tablets that have back panels that snap on & off (e.g.: http://www.kaboodle.com/hi/img/c/0/0/198/5/AAAADPb614kAAAAAA...) like most cell phones.

Re: battery

@GoneNomad

You raise some good points, and if a tablet is connected to vehicle power then the question about which device runs longer on battery is somewhat moot, but I would question the relevance of the tests you cited for two reasons:

1) Those tests were done with screen brightness set to "a reasonable indoor daytime brightness level". I suspect that people using a tablet in a vehicle would have the brightness cranked right up, and that would drain the battery faster.

2) The tests involve web browsing and watching video. The battery drain associated with: [a] constant GPS communications, and [b] the calculations required to update routing and location, could result in significantly different run times.

And still, for me, the concern would be that continuous use of a phone or tablet in a hot car would murder the battery capacity quite quickly. As I've stated in other similar threads, the battery in my TomTom may be so "cooked" that it can only run the device for a few minutes but I don't really care (because, as you stated, we almost always have them plugged in). However, it would be a real nuisance on a tablet or phone because they *are* intended to run on their own battery power much of the time.

--
TomTom GO 720 (for driving), Samsung Galaxy Nexus (for walking)

A bigger problem...

While nav tasks may use more power than watching videos or browsing the web, I doubt that it's a several-fold difference, because the main power consumption is the display. I'd bet that while doing nav tasks, most tablets would last at least two-to-three times as long as most PNDs.

But as we both mentioned, it doesn't matter if the device is plugged into a charger. Anyone using a tablet for nav tasks is going to use a car charger. And a person using a tablet for nav tasks will have many more options available than a PND user. That's where tablets shine.

As for ruining the battery that much faster, it's not going to be any different than using the tablet for other tasks, so in that respect it's just a matter of more hours of use. Keeping the device on the charger all the time doesn't hurt battery life as much as heat does. So the thing to do is, not leave the tablet in a hot car, regardless of what it's used for. The problem is, that brings up the mounting issue again, since tablets aren't designed to be mounted, and easy on/easy off mounting is even more difficult. I can understand why you wouldn't mind leaving a cheaper, older PND in a car while it's locked up in the parking lot on a sunny day, but not a tablet (not just heat damage, also too much theft risk).

But the battery life problem is one reason why, regardless of usage, I would prefer to stay with a tablet with a reasonably easily replaced battery. That rules out the iPad and some others. Unfortunately, ruling out the iPad also rules out Garmin StreetPilot and Magellan Roadmate, along with a bunch of other helper apps like "Where To?"

I have just conducted some initial tests on the Android version of TomTom, and I can say with certainty that it works better than any other Android Nav app. In particular, TomTom is better at what I consider to be the most important feature to a driver who is trying to keep his eyes on the road (voice directions) than any other Android app, including Navigon, which is better than CoPilot. Google Nav also provides very good voice directions, but only if connected to a data network (it uses google's server's to improve voice directions).

A bigger problem (aside from the highly reflective screen) is that the GPS receiver in many tablets is not nearly as good as in a basic PND. My Thrive tablet takes several minutes (usually about 4 min) to acquire a GPS fix from a cold boot if it has been moved from its last location and doesn't have a Wi-Fi network to help establish the position. That's a serious drawback. I would rate internal GPS receiver sensitivity as one of the biggest drawbacks to using a tablet for nav tasks. It is possible to use an external bluetooth GPS receiver, but that adds another $100 to the cost, and also adds to the complexity (another device to manage, charge, etc.)

A tablet connected to a cellular data network will acquire a fix much faster, since it will have A-GPS.

Considering the advantages of having a data connection, I'd say that would be worthwhile. If the weather is bad, I particularly like being able to pull up traffic cams like these: http://www.wyoroad.info/Highway/webcameras/I80Cameras.html and to do that requires a data connection. In my experience, the image of the road surface beats a weather forecast (or current conditions) hands down.

-- wyoming --

onestep wrote:

You are so antiquated! You need to get the new tech!
Touch screen gloves. igloves. http://www.agloves.com/

Wait a second. You said it gets down to 50F and you need gloves?!??!?!?!?!?!?

For me you need to get down to about 30F for gloves, 50F is shorts weather.

I live in the Seattle area... and never need gloves to drive... it never even crosses my mind to reach for them, even though they are with me when I drive.

--I worked a couple of winters in Wyoming, up on the Continental-divide at 7000-ft elevation, where we would see 30 degrees F (by thermometer) or lower, and much lower by wind-chill factor (and its always VERY windy there) I would usually find my self reaching for the gloves when driving after it went somewhere below zero degrees F!

--
~Jim~ Nuvi-660, & Nuvi-680

wow!

Now that sounds COLD!

--
nightrider --Nuvi's 660 & 680--

not really...

nightrider wrote:

Now that sounds COLD!

low temp this calendar year on my weather station -10° - ... this winter season, we've had windchills into the -30° to -40° - That's cold.

--
*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone5 + Navigon*

Navigon Or TomTom For Android?

Now that Mobile World Congress 2013 has come and gone without a word from Garmin regarding an Android app, I am considering Navigon or TomTom for Android. Does anybody happen to know of any reviews that compares specifically those two to one another?

|

Jim1348 wrote:

Now that Mobile World Congress 2013 has come and gone without a word from Garmin regarding an Android app, I am considering Navigon or TomTom for Android. Does anybody happen to know of any reviews that compares specifically those two to one another?

Navigon is Garmin's Android app... I can't tell you about Android... but for iOS, the better app between Navigon & TomTom is Navigon hands down in my opinion.

--
*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone5 + Navigon*

Not far off...

As devices become more 'flexible', that is as more include GPS and have useful mounts designed for in-vehicle use this can become a reality. I'm sure the cellular providers are there with $$ in their eyes hoping to provide all the needed mobile data (at a not-so-nominal fee of course).

I am using my iphone and my ipad as backup GPS devices, but have lifetime traffic installed on my GPS so that's my first line of defense. When I see traffic delays I use Inrix on my ipad to get more information about any traffic delays enroute.

As far as Google goes, yes, they like you to download what you need so they can track what you need. I use offline map apps for my backup because I travel frequently to where there is absolutely no wifi and most likely spotty to no cell service.

Right now, I don't have to worry about data or overages, but in the future this may become an issue. I can't rely on a cellular data connection (much less at 3G or 4G) where I travel (yes, the boonies) so I need my maps before I go. I use internet radio where I can, and my own music where needed so a device that doubles as entertainment is an inviting idea!

I've tested both Navigon and TomTom

kch50428 wrote:

Navigon is Garmin's Android app... I can't tell you about Android... but for iOS, the better app between Navigon & TomTom is Navigon hands down in my opinion.

Navigon MobileNavigator is Navigon's app, not Garmin's app. Garmin (the company) did buy Navigon (the company) in the summer of 2011. The MobileNavigator app hasn't changed much since 2011. To say that "Navigon is Garmin's Android app" is misleading, when Jim's point about a "Garmin Android app" refers to an Android version of Garmin StreetPilot, which has no greater functional similarity to Navigon MobileNavigator than it does to TomTom or CoPilot.

-----------------------------

Jim1348 wrote:

Now that Mobile World Congress 2013 has come and gone without a word from Garmin regarding an Android app, I am considering Navigon or TomTom for Android. Does anybody happen to know of any reviews that compares specifically those two to one another?

I have tested both Navigon and TomTom on my Android tablet, and I can tell you that TomTom is superior to Navigon in a few key areas.

I'd be very surprised if the iOS versions were any different in their functional arrangement or operational scheme. The iOS versions might be less buggy, though, since they probably had more development time.

When someone says one is better than the other, that begs the question, why? What is important to one person may not matter to another.

TomTom's main advantages are better long distance routing accuracy, better voice guidance, and better junction view display. Unfortunately, TomTom does show its PND roots in that it usually forces you to go through screen after screen to go from picking a place to (finally) getting into the navigation mode. If searching for a POI, TomTom displays the results in a PND-typical list (which leaves a lot of display area blank on a tablet) and only shows the distance to each POI in the list, without providing any method (like a map) to show proximity. I also noticed that occasionally the tablet would go to the home screen all by itself when TomTom was running. I'm not sure if this a bug in TomTom itself, or maybe a compatibility issue with my Thrive tablet. But when it did this, TomTom continued to run in the background providing voice guidance.

Navigon does a better job of displaying POIs with icons on a map relative to your current location, and the voice guidance is pretty good, but not as good as TomTom. Navigon's routing is fine for short trips, but fails miserably on long trips (It starts to have real problems on trips over 500 to 1,000 miles, and is almost unusable for longer distances. It is possible this is a bug in the Android version). Like TomTom, Navigon has a PND-typical operational scheme in terms of how addresses are entered, etc. But unlike TomTom, Navigon does allow you to see groups of POIs on a map before you chose one of them to navigate too (TomTom only shows the one already chosen on a map; and none other the others nearby).

Both these apps have some of the same drawbacks, in that they conform to what is the functional norm for PNDs, rather than being truly optimized (from a functional standpoint) to take advantage of a larger higher-res. tablet screen. You can look at the MapQuest app to see an example of how the interface could be done better (but of course MapQuest has other functional limitations).

If you are really interested in trying before you buy, let me know. I know where you can get functioning demo copies of both Navigon and TomTom. Honestly, the only way to know for sure what works best for you is to try (hopefully, before you buy). This is why makers of all these apps should provide people with to better way to demo their products, instead of making them fork over full price, basically buying a pig in a poke. The flip side of that is that many people don't really put these products through their paces, so they may not initially find the flaws that later turn out to be very problematical, or even deal-breakers.

what about size?

I'm just curious where you are placing those tablets when used as navigation? I saw quite a few of them, and they are huge in relation to space you have in passenger car. I keep my GPS in left lower windshield corner and when I'm driving all I need to do is small movement of my eyes to see its screen. And I still can see road. With something like Galaxy Tab I have almost half of view obstructed.

On other hand I don't see anything convenient in placing GPS in place of build-in navigation. Especially in city, where you can have many turns in short distance looking up and down every couple seconds drives me crazy.

Tablets don't have to be placed in top of the dash...

grzesja wrote:

I'm just curious where you are placing those tablets when used as navigation? I saw quite a few of them, and they are huge in relation to space you have in passenger car.

This is a concern that people often bring up about using a tablet, but they don't have to be placed in top of the dash where a typical small PND would be mounted. I put mine to the right of the center (radio, etc.) stack, angled so that it is facing the driver.

Though I don't use this mount, it provides some idea what I'm talking about: http://www.amazon.com/Arkon-TAB-FSM-Tablet-Seat-Mount/dp/B00...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61TU5Zwh73L.jpg
The above image shows a roughly similar mounting position to the way I have mine. My mounting location (if it was in the picture above) would be on the right side of that black center stack, with the left edge of the tablet against the space between the vent opening and the tan part of the dash.

Here's another example: http://i1079.photobucket.com/albums/w507/Adapt-or-lose/Table...

|

GoneNomad wrote:

..when Jim's point about a "Garmin Android app" refers to an Android version of Garmin StreetPilot, which has no greater functional similarity to Navigon MobileNavigator than it does to TomTom or CoPilot.

In my use of Navigon on iOS - it is far closer to the end-user experience I've been accustomed to with my Nuvi765t than Any Garmin app I've ever tried... and hands down better than TomTom.

Navigon's Bernd Hahn is in charge of Garmin's apps for iOS... so Garmin's apps are going to be more Navigon under the hood than the other way around... and if/when it comes to pass that an Android 'StreetPilot' app comes out, it likely will be because the people Garmin acquired with Navigon did it. Until then, Navigon for Android is a viable option to at least consider.

--
*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone5 + Navigon*

Rather than get into another pointless argument...

kch50428 wrote:

In my use of Navigon on iOS - it is far closer to the end-user experience I've been accustomed to with my Nuvi765t...

Anyone who thinks Navigon is superior to TomTom in the key areas I mentioned, either hasn't put much effort into the comparison, or more likely in your case, has the all-too-typical brand loyalty snobbishness, in this case for Garmin and Apple. Heaven forbid that anyone suggest any competing product might be better in any key respect. That's partly why your own assessment lacks specifics.

Rather than get into another pointless argument with you, I'll just provide these links:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/navigon-usa/id384680007?mt=8

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.navigon.na...

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/garmin-n.-america/id43574086...

Garmin StreetPilot iOS:
http://a479.phobos.apple.com/us/r1000/069/Purple/v4/7b/a9/d7...
http://a1571.phobos.apple.com/us/r1000/094/Purple/v4/30/8c/5...
http://a877.phobos.apple.com/us/r1000/086/Purple/v4/3b/7e/1b...

Navigon iOS:
http://a1874.phobos.apple.com/us/r1000/112/Purple/v4/f9/1d/0...
http://a567.phobos.apple.com/us/r1000/115/Purple/v4/5d/b8/6c...

Navigon Android:
https://lh4.ggpht.com/7jcfDwgR8wsVYMq4G_lM9wZ8H03rdA_sCa2OfR...
https://lh3.ggpht.com/GKB-lqw-ceR_c7wG2FFULfHRl7S-k6dyc-BARX...

And let people decide for themselves which ones look alike, and which ones look more like their PND counterparts. As for functionality, all these apps Garmin StreetPilot, Navigon MobileNavigator, TomTom or CoPilot are generally functional similar to one another. But not surprisingly, the mobile apps from one company function more like their PND counterparts.

Long distance routing.

It is interesting that you have given the TomTom app the edge in long distance routing. Does the TomTom app use their IQ Route technology? If it does, I would think it should also give better short distance routes.

--
Alan - Nuvi 3597LMTHD, Oregon 550T, Nuvi 855, Nuvi 755T, Lowrance Endura Sierra

Navigon fails at long distance routes

alandb wrote:

It is interesting that you have given the TomTom app the edge in long distance routing. Does the TomTom app use their IQ Route technology? If it does, I would think it should also give better short distance routes.

I'm not sure if TomTom Android uses IQ routing or not.
The problem in this respect is that Navigon Android basically fails at long distance routing. It will create incorrect routes, how bad they are seems related to the distance. They aren't the only app/PND with this problem. But TomTom Android doesn't have it, from what I have seen so far. Like I said before, TomTom's voice guidance is better than Navigon too. But I really don't like the "traditional PND style" method of displaying POI search results (in a list), but then again, that's how Garmin and most other PNDs do it too.

Maybe some people only travel as far as across town, or they've always split long trips up into shorter segments. If so, they may never see this problem.

I'm sure the Apple loyalist in the room will say that's due the inferior OS, and that it works prefectly on iOS. I've had to learn to use both iPad AND Android tablets, and I can't see any difference in this respect in either version of Navigon.

Bernd Hahn was acquired by Garmin along with Navigon.

kch50428 wrote:

Navigon's Bernd Hahn is in charge of Garmin's apps for iOS...

Bernd Hahn was acquired by Garmin along with Navigon. He had nothing to do with StreetPilot for iOS until then. Garmin StreetPilot iOS predates this acquisition. So the CURRENT version of Garmin StreetPilot is in no way a derivative of the Navigon product that Bernd Hahn worked on previously.

And dropping names doesn't change the fact that unless you can cite specifics, your assertions of qualitative differences are nearly meaningless.

Is The Replacement For Stand Alone Automobile GPS A Small Tablet

Maybe the way I should ask this is either Navigon or TomTom better in any way than Co-Pilot for navigating? I have Co-Pilot now and it is okay, but it is no Garmin either!

Personally, I think it's a bad idea >>>

to use one device for everything. I keep separate GPS, calendar (iTouch) and phones as well as an iPad3...while functions may overlap, if I lose one or one breaks, I have not lost everything...JM2CYMMV

--
"You can't get there from here"

TomTom & Navigon both definitely better than CoPilot

Jim1348 wrote:

Maybe the way I should ask this is either Navigon or TomTom better in any way than Co-Pilot for navigating? I have Co-Pilot now and it is okay, but it is no Garmin either!

Yes, either one is definitely better than CoPilot. I can definitely go along with with saying CoPilot is "OK" (as in, maybe better than nothing, as long as you don't run afoul of CoPilot's tendency to direct you on routes where there aren't any roads!

There's reason why CoPilot is routinely sold for only $8, and why the company that makes it was recently sold to Trimble.

Both Navigon & TomTom are better than CoPilot in terms of the quality and accuracy of the voice annunciations, which is something I consider to be second only to routing accuracy. I would much rather have accurate, timely, understandable voice annunciations than fancy graphics, because I like to keep my eyes on the road. On any named street that is also a highway (which is a very common circumstance in urban areas), CoPilot announces the highway number, and it often does that in an annoyingly lengthy way. CoPilot voice quality is lower because it uses Android TTS, whereas both Navigon & TomTom have a folder full of hundreds of MB of voice files that evidently make a lot of difference vs the built-in TTS.

Another example, CoPilot does allow you to see POIs that you've searched for on a map, but a maximum of 50, and only 10 at a time, split up on five different screens, and there not grouped in what I would consider to be any logical order (they are grouped "sort of" by proximity, but not exactly).

Showing the POI search results only in a list (until you pick one) is IMO one of the biggest drawbacks to TomTom (and many other PNDs, like Garmin - and I guess that comment may bring out all the Garmin loyalists to contradict me, but I'm very familiar with the way it's done on Garmin PNDs, and that's not the way I'm referring to). In this respect, Navigon MobilNavigator is superior to TomTom Android (and almost every PND except some Magellan models).

Another area where Navigon is superior to TomTom is in picking an alternate route. TomTom allows this too, but it's much more cumbersome than in Navigon. But neither one necessarily offers the choice of the alternate route you may have actually wanted, and neither allows routes to be changed by dragging them (like google maps, or S&T). In most cases, the alternate route can be forced as you're driving, simply by driving the way you want, usually at the beginning of the route, at least for short trips. For long trips you'd most likely have to make it a multi-step trip by adding waypoints.

I posted a review of CoPilot somewhere in this thread: http://www.laptopgpsworld.com/alk

I hope this helps. If you want to try demos of either TomTom or Navigon (Android), let me know via PM.

FWIW, I don't begrudge anybody who wants to think something is better (for their own use) mainly because it has a famous brand logo on it. But when they give advice to others based more on brand worship than objective testing (even if they don't really realize what motivates them), that does tick me off a bit. I almost never say ANY one is totally better than another. All have their strengths and weaknesses. Maybe other assign different priorities to some features than I do, but I can assure you that I have zero brand bias (and I don't buy cases with holes in them so the logo shows through, either... sound familiar?).

TomTom & Navigon both definitely better than CoPilot

Thank you for the reply and check for my PM!

TomTom (Android) screen captures

TomTom (Android) screen captures, showing the limitations of its POI search capability:

You can chose which POIs show up on the map view:
http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s561/GoneNomad1/TomTomSc...
and they show up like this (when viewing the map):
http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s561/GoneNomad1/TomTomSc...
as subcategory icons, although logos show up in some cases.

But if you want to SEARCH for a POI by name, after choosing "search POIs" and then typing in what you're looking for, you get a list like this:
http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s561/GoneNomad1/TomTomSc...
which shows only how far each one is from the current location (without even the address that shows up on some PNDs, or the arrow showing direction that you see on Garmin PNDs) even though there's plenty of room on this screen for more information - on a tablet, at least, but most of these apps are rarely ever truly tablet optimized.
You have to pick each POI, one at a time, to see it on a map, and when you do that, you get a map like this:
http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s561/GoneNomad1/TomTomSc...
which does not show where that is relative to the current GPS fix, and does not allow you to scroll/pan around in that map to get some idea of the surrounding area. If you don't recognize where that is based on the default map as shown in that image (as you might not do if in an unfamiliar area), then you'll have to chose to navigate to a POI just to get a better idea of where it is. All of which is pretty stupid, but then again most PNDs work pretty much the same way, although some allow pan/zoom from the screen comparable to the one shown above. In this respect, Magellan's PNDs are better, as they allow you to see something more like the "map view" screen above. And the Navigon MobileNavigator app is better too. I have a lot of screen caps of Navigon, and will see if I can find them when I have time.

BTW, that "Walmart" that's at the top of the list above, and on the subsequent map image... is bogus. There is no Walmart there (never has been), although there is a Sam's Club not too far from there (google had it wrong for many years, but after about the third time I notified them, I think they finally fixed it). At least TomTom does get some others right that Garmin and Magellan have had wrong for years. But all these apps and PNDs have problems with POIs. Fortunately, I know how to find these flaws (and a lot more) and that's exactly what I look for when I put an app or PND through its paces.

I hope this helps.

A thorough review would involve a lot more screen caps and time than I can spare right now.

Garmin on the iPhone

I was hesitant for a long time to go the route of all on the cell phone, but then got tired of carrying so many discrete devices. The Garmin software works without cellular connectivity with the exception of traffic updates.

For what its worth the software works quite similar to my old nuvi.

That's pretty much been the case...

jjwgps wrote:

...For what its worth the software works quite similar to my old nuvi.

That's pretty much been the case with all the PND-brand nav apps I've tested - they've basically ported over their standalone PND interface (warts & all) to smartphone/tablet OS, e.g.: http://a877.phobos.apple.com/us/r1000/086/Purple/v4/3b/7e/1b...

There are better ways to take advantage of the larger screen real estate of a tablet. Some examples of this can be seen in what MapQuest does, e.g.: http://www.mapquest.com/routeplanner which incorporates some S&T-ish features.

Garmin’s Android strategy

Garmin’s Android strategy
January 17, 2013
http://gpstracklog.com/2013/01/why-theres-no-garmin-android-...

"Garmin gave Asus an exclusive for any preloaded navigation apps through the end of 2012."

Interesting (and very true) excerpt:
"The market for Android navigation apps is challenging; the developers must compete with the free and always improving Google Maps Navigation app that comes preloaded on Android handsets. Not that is isn’t without significant flaws, but at free, it’s good enough for most folks. The TomTom USA app has sold less than 1,000 units to date."

~

jjwgps wrote:

I was hesitant for a long time to go the route of all on the cell phone, but then got tired of carrying so many discrete devices. The Garmin software works without cellular connectivity with the exception of traffic updates.

For what its worth the software works quite similar to my old nuvi.

Depends on which Garmin iOS app you get... the "OnBoard" one(s) download full maps to your iDevice... other Garmin apps don't.

--
*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone5 + Navigon*

Garmin StreetPilot onDemand is discontinued

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=165&pID=107112

Garmin StreetPilot onDemand (the "offline" version that did not store map data on the device) was discontinued last fall. https://twitter.com/KitCischke/status/261829715625639936

Page 1>>

sponsored links