PoI Accuracy

Google Maps, Extra POI Editor and GeePex Editor all have satellite views.

I have made a number of files and I find that the addresses provided on web sites and businesses, leaves a lot to be desired.
-Postal Address instead of actual Street Address.
-Using the City name when the location is just outside the city limits and the GPS actually uses the county, township, etc.
-GPS uses an algorithm to determine the location based on the street number and this is not perfect.

However, the person making the file has an obligation to be as accurate as possible and not simply Geocode based on the given data.
-Make sure that it geocoded to the street address and not just to the city.
-pull up satellite view and zoom as tight as possible. Then drag the marker in EPE or GeePex to the actual site.
-If this doesn't work, go to the website of the business and see if they have a map. If so, use that location, if you can. However, I find that many businesses are sloppy and don't look to see if the location is correct.
-If in doubt, don't include the site. You're not getting paid for each location, so why include it. I would rather ignore a site than include an inaccurate one.

This is a lot more work, but most of us that do this, have time on our hands, so take a little extra. We're not getting paid by piece work. Hell, we're not paid at all.

I have been maintaining that file for at least 3 months and updated many times with numerous inputs. I don't recall the submitter name of creeper.

I don't think anyone else has seen a note from creeper either. Probably one of the best at documenting submission from users is Mahoney with all the files he maintains. Perdom is right behind him as to the number of files and updates.

Like I stated earlier, he went for 1 year and 22 weeks without a post which to me would indicate that he didn't try to submit any corrections during that time either. (Click on his user name, then track.)

In my mind, there's a social contract. In exchange for using others' POI files, I feel responsible to contribute back by reporting corrections from my direct experience. I expect that there will be mistakes, especially in the largest files. Each of us contributes as we can, by creating or maintaining a file, by submitting new locations, or just by reporting errors we observe personally, and we all benefit.

One thing I have noted through Creeper's rant is that we have never known what files were 'verified.' Other than Odd-Ball Attractions and one of the many campground files. But nowhere in the rant were any corrected coordinates given.

I believe we all know the odd ball attractions file has problems, not of BobKZ's doing necessarily, but of bad data to begin with. I know i've chased a few of them down and found some errors which were submitted. Virtually every time I have submitted a correction I have received a response, if not, I've seen it incorporated in a later revision.

I'm personally responsible for one file I have no idea how I'll get it updated. The web site I mined the data from changed so information can't be copied and the parent company refuses to acknowledge a request for dealer addresses. Another problem file is one for one of the regional burger chains. You search by zip and heaven help you if you are traveling and don't know a zip. They also refuse to provide a list of outlets "because we want people to use our web site." Well, HELLO, if I'm on the road and I want to see if there is a location nearby where I can get one of their juicy burgers, I guess I'll go someplace I can find.

...how do you do it? I knew you maintained a lot of files, but I had NO idea there were as many as there are until I checked a couple of minutes ago. Boy, I have respect for you. No wonder you received the COY award for last year. (By the way, great job on the way you maintain these. I have used several of your files and they are always top-notch.)

If someone would build a Google-map interface for poi-factory.com in which you could select the POI file from the DB and then either confirm / negate locations.

For example, I'd love to go to:
www.poi-factory.com/verify

Select, say, the Walmart POI, and then either add in a new location OR delete a location. You'd need to have this for verified members only so you didn't have troublemakers going in and hosing things up.

You could then start off with a seed file (the list of addresses run through Google Earth) and folks, as they used the file, could add/update (move a location)/delete through the interface eliminating individuals having to update their own files.

Something else I'd like to see is a move away from csv files. I'd really like to see the GPX files take off more or, if it's all in a DB on poi-factory.com, then you could just have the data there and apply whatever file format you like.

I pulled down quite a few files this past week for fast-food restaurants, etc. I, too, noticed many errors (and found a new restaurant that I didn't even know was there - it's not all bad). I haven't reported any of them yet but it does leave me with the, "I'd rather not fool with it"-feeling. Yes, you could certainly say I'm part of the problem at that point.

Not my idea but seen this on another site a while back.All members could access a file and submit changes for example coordinates,delete location, new location added etc.The member is responsible to fill out all the required information(fill in the blanks).The author of the file had option to accept or reject the change.The good part was that author got email when any changes were added for approval.Plus you could also see the requests when you viewed the file.

The only draw back was sometimes someone eager to make a suggestion may just move the coordinates some to get credit for a suggestion if author approved it.

I appreciate the work that you all are putting into the site. I am not here to complain about the site, but I have a couple of suggestions. This thread keeps suggesting that users that find mistakes should submit them. It is not clear to me how to do this.

I checked an In-N-Out location near my home, and the coordinates should be changed for easier access. I have the improved coordinates on a sheet of paper in front of me right now; however, I don't know how to submit the change. I have also found a couple of non-chain restaurants in different files that are now closed. I don't know how to pass along this information. I have noticed that some POI files have a thread where changes are submitted, some say to contact the maintainer, and some don't say what to do. for the In-N-Out CSV file, it appears that the file is no longer maintained, although it is difficult to tell. I looked through the FAQs and couldn't find a good answer.

Without updated information, these POI files are no better than those that are pre-installed on the GPS receiver. I suggest this site add a front-page link with instructions for updating files, including a simple way to determine the coordinates, possibly as an addition to the "getting started" link. I think having an easy way to update files is as important to this site as providing a simply method to download files.

This is the way I found coordinates:
1. Go to http://itouchmap.com/latlong.html
2. Zoom in to local street level and click on the location.
3. Copy the decimal coordinates from the bottom of the page.

Another suggestion I have for this site would be to have a standard method for updating locations. Ideally, a form similar to the "My locations > add a new location" form would be really nice. Using this form, I entered the In-N-Out coordinates into My locations by the following method:

1. Click My locations.
2. Enter the coordinates obtained from itouchmap.com.
3. Click "Map" and zoom to street level to verify the coordinates.
4. Now I need a way to submit this information to this site.

My guess is that people who find mistakes will be more likely to suggest fixes if there is a simple, clearly explained way to do it.

I have always found by contacting the author of the file first since the files belongs to them is the best way to get a change.If the file is shows no contact link then use the contact form to submit to POI fACTORY for the change.

As it has been said before if the contact link is active on the owner them send them a list of changes. If not then send them to Miss POI. She in turn will contact the owner or make the changes herself. At the top of this page and all other pages there is a button called about/ contact us. You can click on it and then there is a form to fill out and send to the factory for action. I have used it before and it works. Good Luck.

I don't think what I said was misunderstood but just to clarify:

I appreciate the work that goes into the current set of files. I appreciate the website. I was just suggesting a different, less manual, and probably more accurate way of handling this.

A few years back I thought it'd be cool to have a toll POI so that, as you approached the toll, you'd be alerted to the price. I never got into it because it looked like a huge pain / chore. If there was a centralized way of doing it, though, I'd be far more likely to check the site and say, "Yep, that's right," or, "No, that's not quite right - let me fix it."

I think you'd need a pro-log to each POI file so that certain rules could be established such as:
- location represents entrance to door (or location represents entrance to parking lot)
- format of (in my example) tolls: C:x.xx, T:x.xx

Just something so that it wasn't so random the information you'd be getting.

Understand what you said, but one problem with everyone being able to change a poi file is if the owner didn't get the change for some reason then eventually the master file would be outdated and we wouldn't have anyone that would care because they weren't the orignator of the file. I agree it would be nice to have everyone check their files, but it isn't always that easy. I just made one and for one address I had to look at four different ways to get even close and the company list are a big pain sometimes. Not an easy answer as has been dicussed in depth here before.

I'm thinking that you have it in a database on the site, possibly with an audit trail. (this is all pie-in-the-sky stuff, of course).

One the originator submits their file (maybe Miss POI could load it), then the database is the master file. There is no 'I maintain the X POI file' we all just update it in place and download it as needed. It's a collective work.

My idea would have the files improve overtime to the point where you'd have near-100% accuracy (and that would be because of human-error mistakes as well as business closing/moving).

I'm thinking that you have it in a database on the site, possibly with an audit trail. (this is all pie-in-the-sky stuff, of course).

One the originator submits their file (maybe Miss POI could load it), then the database is the master file. There is no 'I maintain the X POI file' we all just update it in place and download it as needed. It's a collective work.

My idea would have the files improve overtime to the point where you'd have near-100% accuracy (and that would be because of human-error mistakes as well as business closing/moving).

In the short time I've been here I have seen many names come and just as quickly. This morning some showed up posting something about backgammon in German for some reason. There would have to still be some control to prevent someone from inputting erroneous information for spite or to just be funny. Not saying it would not work but there are people out there that would do something like that.

Yeah - That's why I said you needed:
- trusted users (they've been around more than a week)
- an audit trail - so that you could see who did what and recover if needed.

You'd eventually have someone slip through the cracks, though.

Yeah - That's why I said you needed:
- trusted users (they've been around more than a week)
- an audit trail - so that you could see who did what and recover if needed.

You'd eventually have someone slip through the cracks, though.

I just uploaded a 3-field CSV file of 919 California campgrounds that I meticulously chased down one at a time on Google Earth. Obviously, I have more fields that could have been added, but before I go overboard, I'd like to know if folks find this file to be accurate.

If you have the time to check it out, I'd appreciate feedback on the accuracy of the coordinates.

Isn't that the dog I saw on the news several years ago that people hand their money to and he takes it inside?

and I can understand why. many of you have worked long and hard to provide what you have and take it personally when someone complains about your work. Yet I can sympathize with Creeper as it can be quite inconvenient to have travelled far out of the way for something that is not there. I have had similar issues with stuff that was programmed into the stock GPS.

I, for one, know the power of a community of users. I have been involved with another online community for quite sometime and the collective knowledge of the users is of far more value than any other source.

In my short time here, I have tried to contact a maintainer to submit some corrections for stuff in my area, and well, it remains to be seen whether or not there'll be a response. I would rather just post the modifications directly but I can understand that you may not trust a noob.

I think that what Brad_Bishop and ryb97001 have said are some great ideas. having a map preview of locations would do wonders. I could scan over the map in the area that I know and identify what is incorrect or missing. It would be evern cooler if ALL poi files would display simultaneously (when zoomed in far enough not to create a mess). That way I could see what other POI files have stuff in my area. We could also find duplicate entries across multiple files and make a decision to combine files or not. as Brad said, an online database would be great. Maybe you could even have just one master database and let users filter the database to a point then generate a custom POI file on the fly.

I don't think the subject of maintaining files is as touchy as you imply. There are many of us here that maintain a large number of files and, speaking for myself welcome any and all corrections to the files. There are some that have posted files and then disappeared leaving no way to update the file other than either asking Miss POI to or, raising your hand and volunteering to maintain the file.

Some files have two maintainers, one for the csv version and another for the GPX. It's that way for the truck stop files. I maintain most of the GPX versions and they are different than the CSV as far as content.

Yes its more work, but its better.

A pet peeve is that the GPSs don't have an "override" option. Many address on the GPS are approximate, even to the point of having to search for the house or business. It would be beneficial to have an "override" switch to "wipe-out" the incorrect location. Yes, I have recorded the actual location, but that still leaves me with a "bad" location.

I agree with at least knowing the direction you're going helps immensely. Unless it's the middle of the night (when I deliver most times), you can just look around to find the location. My WorldNav and my Tom Tom usually have the location of opposite sides of the road, with about 1/2 mile difference. But, without them, I couldn't go around the block anymore, after getting so used to them. I really preferred my Garmin, but it died and there was no replacement available right at that moment. In South Dakota at a WalMart and found the TomTom. Good for everything except restricted routes.

If you find a mistake you can always edit the copy you downloaded. With saying that it is frowned upon to upload the file back to the list. Granted this is not a fix for the POI being updated but takes care of your local file. I have done this on a few that I have downloaded, informed the maintainer of the file, then watched the "My Favorite Files" for a new update.

There are many ways to update files. They way they do it here has worked well for the majority since the start. There are some maintainers that update faster then others and some that may of disappeared. Granted, I have not been here long but I have nothing but godd to say about the people here.

sure you can re-point your FAVOURITES but not your custom POIs

.

Recent trip to Pigeon Forge Tn... Accuracy of the POI file ZERO.. 0 for 20......

Recent trip to Pigeon Forge Tn... Accuracy of the POI file ZERO.. 0 for 20......

Did you make corrections on your own so that you could let the file maintainer know and if the original maintainer cannot correct so that you could let Miss POI know so she can correct or allow you to upload the corrections so that the next person can get to the correct location?

Maybe these recent earthquakes through all of those readings off? Just kidding I know it would not make it that far off.

And what do you call "Zero accuracy? Off a few hundred feet, miles, or out of state?

Dear Lee,

I used the same approach with GOOGLE EARTH for the HESS file I created. I know that software exists to translate addresses into coordinates but fear that ends up with quantity at the expense of quality. I would not use it. What is available at The Factory should always be of high quality.

david

Given the wide variety of methods for assigning addresses by the various cities and counties in the US, it is no wonder that many of the addresses are only approximate. Some of the reasons for this are that (for instance) large corporations, after negotiating, can sometimes request and get the address of their choice just for locating in their town – like “One Such and Such Way” – even though the location is in the middle of the block or on a continuous circle. Or, this can be because someone has a friend in the Building Inspection department and wants an ‘easy to remember’ address.
I believe that workers here at the factory are becoming more and more attuned to this fact, and are working very hard to make POI coordinates very accurate by the use of Google Earth ground shots – which more times than not are just as good as actually visiting that location in person. We look for such things such as street signs, store signs, logo in the distance, and even curb numbers and unique store-front designs. Many times I have spent more than an hour just to come up with accurate coordinates for one location. Sometimes even this is impossible due to camera shots looking into the sun or heavy fog, or something else (like a bus or bushy trees) are in the way. In this case we use an educated guess knowing full well that we are definitely VERY close.
Keep in mind that a street address with an erroneous or missing N, S, E, or W can put that location on the other side of town from where it really is, which for a large city can be many miles away. In any case, the majority of contributors here at the factory do their very best, and we want newcomers, old-timers, and returnees to know it!

I have pretty much given up on batch geocoding. It is faster, but nowhere near as accurate. Like you, I have spent untold hours trying to pinpoint a single location with Google Earth, Mapquest, Yahoo Maps, Bing Maps, etc. all open at the same time trying to get accurate coordinates.

I'm working on my first POI file for POI Factory. One of the things I'm a stickler on is accuracy, and the source that I'm pulling the POIs from is, to say the least, wildly inaccurate. Most of the time it pulls up a location that's somewhat nearby, but in one particular instance the POI I wanted was somewhere in the neighborhood of a half mile distant from where the source said it was. That's simply unacceptable. Not being paid is not an acceptable reason to do half-assed work.

The one thing I cannot stress enough is to not include the site if you have any doubts. For example, I have one POI in which the only information I have is that I know who owns it, and that as of last month it still existed. There is little to no information on the POI on the Internet and I haven't heard back from the owner, so I'm not including the POI in the file. I have some other POIs that are similar to this. I am keeping notes because when it gets posted I am sure I can solicit a bit of help from locals by providing a list.

I'm finding though that I'm using EPE more to get a visual on how the POI will look on the screen than actually using EPE to create the POI. I think it's because I'll understand the process a bit better doing it manually.

Should be the guideline.

If I miss a BBQ shack or that one funny statue of a giant swan, far better that I do so because it wasn't on my list rather than being sent "out of my way" to some place that may or may not be nearby.

As always, thanx to those who create and maintain the lists.

I'll do my part starting next fall after my next trip.

I have a hankering to identify static militaria and locomotive displays.

One nice thing... all I have to do when I see one is stop, press "where am I" and save it with a memorable name in my favorites, to be mined for the file later.

And it's a great excuse to retravel all the routes I've done over the last three years (sans gps.) weg.

What do you mean by "static militaria"?

A non-moving, non-functional, display.

Air museums with planes sitting around, those are static. If they can fly the planes in and out... those are aren't.

Plugged artillery pieces are considered static.

So I'm including pieces in front of VFW halls, city parks, military museums...

Ok, I understand. We're not working at cross purposes then, since I'm working on a historic ship POI, which would include museum ships throughout the US and Canada.

http://www.poi-factory.com/node/6039

When mine is ready, perhaps we can coordinate them onto a single page, and potentially along with the one above.

I did check that one, and that one gives just the museums. My POI also includes working vessels (where possible) that may be historically significant. The idea isn't to provide a POI for a specific museum, but the ships within that museum. As an example, the POI you mentioned would have one POI for Battleship Cove in Massachusetts. Mine would break that one POI down into a list of individual ships:

LCM P-56 Mechanized Landing Craft
PT-617 & PT-796 Torpedo Boats
Japanese Motorboat
USS Joseph P. Kennedy Jr. Destroyer
USS Lionfish Submarine
Hiddensee USSR Missile Cruiser
USS Massachusetts Battleship

Since more than a few vessels are working ships, I won't call it a museum ships POI.

Any ships I run across I'll forward to you rather than adding them to my file. Check out my project... BobDee gave me two to start wiht, one is a Gato class sub.

Go to http://www.hnsa.org and look there. While even their list isn't wholly accurate in that it is missing at least one tugboat and one PT boat, it's pretty good.

Military craft are already done. It's the civilian ships that are the real trick here. I'm sure I could have made my life easier by fishing through the National Register of Historic Places POI, but that list isn't complete and isn't terribly accurate when it comes to working vessels.

I really appreciate the McDonalds file that he maintains. I have several corrections that are between here and Florida to submit when I get the time to chase down the details.

two more come to mind, one at the Musuem of science and Technology, Chicago, a Japanese sub
And the schooner located at San Diego, the Star of India.

This is one of my favorite static displays. I always wonder how much it costs to put a real fighter plane on a stand to make it look like a model I had on my dresser when I was younger. Are they trying to make the real thing look like the Testers kit?

I watched the actual craning and mounting of the SR-71 they put on top of the Air & Space Museum parking structure in Los Angeles.

The Japanese submarines...one is located in the Nimitz WWII Museum in Texas, one is located at the USS Nautilus Museum in Connecticut. There are at least two additional Japanese mini subs that I know of, but without the POI in front of me, I couldn't tell you where they are.

The sub in the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry is U-505, a German submarine.

The ones I'm having difficulty finding are some tugboats supposedly berthed in Duluth, MN. Extensive Internet research into these tugboats has revealed no trace of any of them. Thus, they won't be appearing in my POI.

link to http://www.wegoplaces.com/Attraction_54837.aspx
or http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=13772083241601689773&q...

Edna G. is one of two in that area I had managed to find. But, you just made my life a bit easier. For some reason in my Google searches, We Go Places never popped up, even after specifically entering the ship's name.