the yellow light factor

I was ticketed in NYC back in January - 10pm on the West Side Highway in Manhattan, no other cars around. I saw it go yellow, and I knew it was going to be close - I thought I could make it, but could have stopped if I tried. I had just gotten my new 760, and I didn't have the RLC file yet, so the first I knew there was a camera was when I saw the flash in the mirror. It was clearly deserved in my case.

Well beware, many times the yellow light is shortened for camera intersections.

As well, a number of them simply take the picture if a car is in the intersection after the light goes to red. No judgement is made of whether the car was legally in the intersection prior to the light changing.

I believe the camera trips when one crosses the sensor and the light is actually on red. If you enter the intersection on yellow but the light turns red while you are still in the intersection, you shouldn't get a ticket. At least that's the way it works in MD.

The problem often occurs when one approaches an intersection and the light just turns yellow and they keep on going, anticipating they have enough time to pass the sensor before the red light. Short yellow catches them.

In the similar case of waiting for the left turn inside intersection in green light when the comming traffic is too heavy to clear before next red light, the camera shots also make it very difficult in court unless there is a video to prove.

Where I live, the system determines you will drive through the red light prior to you entering the intersection.

The system uses the speed of the vehicle. There is nothing actually in the intersection that trips the red light camera. This makes sure the camera can't take your picture unless the light is red before you entered the intersection.

There are two electric loops buried in the road. One is about 20 feet back from the stop line and the other is about 5 feet back from the stop line. These loops sense when a car passes over them. The speed of the car can be calculated by the time it takes to pass over the two loops.

The second loop is 5 feet from the stop line. If the speed of the car is determined to be too fast to stop completely in the 5 feet between the loop and the stop line, AND the light is red, the camera takes a photo. This photo shows the car 5 feet before the stop line with the plate number and the red light showing...

The camera is programed to take a second photo about 1/2 second later. If you are moving, then the second photo will show your car in the intersection with the light red.

In order to issue a ticket, the police have to produce both photos. One must show the car outside the intersection just before the stop line, showing the light was red, and the other on half a second later must show the same car in the intersection with the light still red. Conventional film is used and the photos have the time and speed imprinted on them.

That system is hard to beat.......

what it is

I think enough is enough on red light cameras...time to go on...if you enter an intersection and the light is red....BINGO....YOU WILL PROBABLY GET A TICKET....pretty clear to me...analyzing when the camera goes off will not make any difference...are we now going to start timing our entry into intersections????

I was in Raleigh, NC for a charity bicycle ride a coupla months ago. It was around 8:00am on a Saturdy. There were almost no vehicles in the intersection. Being a country boy, and not being used to traffic cameras, I ran the redlight, turning left, and ran the redlight again going the other direction. Then, I saw the cameras! I was counting on getting tickets for what I did. But none came. Then I realized, the bicycles on the hitch rack must have blocked the license plate numbers. Or, maybe the cameras only are on during certain hours, not sure. Whew, that was close. I read online where some people fasten a rag, strategically atop the license plate. When driving, the tag is viewable from law enforcement at street level. But, the license plate view is blocked from higher up angles, where the cameras are located. In my lifetime, I have ran redlights hundreds of times, but never gotten a ticket. I always look for the cops, then make my move under the red light. Not too lawful, but it works for me.

In both states I have received tickets from the local law enforcement for going through a yellow light. In both states, at least the towns I was in, it is illegal to go through yellow light.

at least, have been caught shortening yellow lights to generate tax money.

Chattanooga, Tennessee
Dallas, Texas
Springfield, Missouri
Lubbock, Texas
Nashville, Tennessee
Union City, California

I was always taught - when the light turns yellow: (1) if you're in the intersection, get out of it. (2) if you haven't entered the intersection, don't.

That philosophy has kept me out of trouble.

Yes, it's all about Money.

If they don't want drivers to pass Yellow light, they should only have have Red & Green lights only

Think a can of spray paint could beat it?

Sounds like you are one of the reasons they have gone to red light cameras....Hard for me to believe someone runs them just for fun....You need to get a few tickets to slow you down from doing what you think is fun....

I can't see how that could be enforced. For if you are moving at 30 mph a few feet short of the intersection when the light changes to yellow, it is physically impossible to stop. No car has a zero stopping distance.

Down in some parts of Florida, ie: Manatee and Sarasota Counties, red light running is a $125 "CIVIL" fine because cities have implemented it as a local ordinance.. and not as a traffic violation which would result in a fine with NO points against your drivers license.

http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/story/1821959.html

and

http://www.bradenton.com/news/local/story/1821968.html

The thing that bothers me is sometime one can be in a situation where they are legally within the intersection and the light turns red, but due to traffic circumstances beyond your control you have to continue on.. and what could happen? You get a undeserved red light running ticket.

That I don't agree with.

Nuvi1300WTGPS

Nuvi1300WTGPS@Gmail.com

You have to keep in mind that when you can see the light, you are before the intersection. By the time you are entering that intersection the light may have already changed and you wouldn't be able to see it. As for being caught in the intersection after the light has changed, well in NYC thats illegal anyway. Rememer all the signs that say Don't Block The Box!

When I was in driver's education many years ago we had a police officer come in that we could ask questions to. The question I asked was, "At what point am I running a red light, or in other words, what marking do I have to be beyond to be considered as running a red light?" The police officer responded that he wasn't exactly sure! But, he then said that his rule is that the driver's car has to be at least 1/4 of the way under the overhead light on the red. So he said basically, if you see it turn red you've run a red light. I thought that answer seemed a little off because I felt that there should be a difinitive answer as to when one was running a red light. I then asked a friend's father who was also a police officer the same question. He said that as long as the front of the car was under the light while it was still yellow he didn't give a ticket. I'm not sure if it was just the police officers in the area where I grew up who didn't have some official rule on the matter or what. At least now with all of the red light cameras where I live I have been given a difinitive answer that as long as your front axel is past the intersection line you haven't run a red light. I don't think this answer could apply where I grew up though because the lights are older and the streets are as well. There aren't lines marking intersections in most places where I grew up like there are where I live now. That's probably one of the reasons they don't have any photo cameras where I grew up...they would have to redo a lot of things to make it legit.

Might sound like I ran the lights for fun in Raleigh, but there was almost no traffic that time of morn on a Saturday, and I was in a hurry. I never thought about there being cameras until we had already turned around. I am 58 years old, so most of my traffic light runnings were done back in the sleepy town I grew up in. I worked some second, and third shift work. Lights were slow and non syncronized and late at night. So, hows about a knuckle sandwitch? Kidding!!

Legally, a yellow light is a green light. You were snookered in both cases.

A yellow light is a nice courtesy that is given to you, the driver, that your green light signal is ending soon. When the light goes red, then you are legally obligated to stop.

Fun is driving in towns without yellow lights.

Yes. My daughter was positive the light was yellow when she entered the intersection where she got her ticket. Not a red light camera but rather an officer observing from a parking lot near the intersection, who then pulled her over. As we discussed the specifics (as best she could recall) of the exact spot on her windshield she last remembered seeing the light, she became not so positive but still sure enough to go to court and explain her speed and it's position. We also had long discussions about what the local law was regarding how much of her vehicle had to be entering the intersection on red to constitute a violation and where the 'intersection' started since there was no crosswalk. For her it was the front wheels and the closest (to her) curb of the road she was crossing, so she was sure she should go to court and plead her case. Her speed, yellow duration, we discussed it all and she was ready!

She called after the court appearance to tell me that the police car had video which clearly showed her entering just after it turned red.

I'd have to see it in print before I'd believe there's anywhere that it's a violation to be completely in an intersection on yellow-to-red, but as she learned .. memory and reaction time/judgement decisions are not always what we're SURE they are. But I'm also NOT going to say that you always MUST stop on yellow, either.

I would like to know who gets to make the decision if you get a ticket or not.

The red light company reviews the data and sends all suspected offenders on to the city. The city police make the call to issue a ticket or not. There are many that are now not issuing right turn on red violations. Right on red are far and away the most prevalent tickets given at any light. Some cities are more strict than others. Some go by the letter of the law while some use the criteria "Would I give a ticket if I were sitting in my car watching the intersection"

You'll warn me if you ever plan on driving in New York, won't you?

Its too bad they couldn't replace the yellow light with a countdown clock instead. Sometimes I glance over at the cross walk countdown clocks so I know how much time is left until the light changes red.

This is an interesting report, although I don't quite understand the results. maybe it's the way people drive in different countries. I would think it would be a great tool knowing just when the light was going to change. Especially when the lights are on roads with higher speed limits.

Check out this website:

http://tinyurl.com/26a3oa

Most intersections are arguably built/sized fairly uniformly, so I would like to think that there is a general rule of thumb. My personal opinion is that if you are in the intersection, say getting ready to make a turn, then you are free and clear to safely complete the turn even if the light is yellow or even red. If you are in front of the line (which you did legally), and then wait for traffic to pass so that you can complete your turn, that ought to be OK. Maybe a cop observing the situation might feel differently, but...

Anyway, but what about "odd" intersections, e.g. five spurs or overly large dimensions such that you have to travel "far" to complete a turn? You would hope that light timings would be set appropriately, but faults occur, or changes are made for one reason or another (upgrade, adjusting for new traffic patterns,etc.) such that I could see someone "legally" running a red light.

Ultimately it is up to the police to enforce the situation, I would think.

True enough, but everywhere the law has to be spelled out someplace and some are easier to find than others.

Before red light cameras were even a gleam in local comptroller's eyes, I was told (in driving school) that in our state it is NOT illegal to be in the intersection waiting to turn, and to complete the turn even after the light turns red. Of course while in the intersection, it would be illegal to block oncoming or oncoming & turning traffic, block a crosswalk, or remain in the intersection (on red) after it was safe to proceed with the turn ('block the box'). As near as I can determine, that's still the case today (here in Maryland).

But somewhere, someplace... there's a written law(s) for that.

Sir you are a fool! I can only hope that the self confessed country bumpkin in you gets what you deserve and really have comming. I can Only hope you don't kill someone being proud of running red lights.

He is not a fool, just a careful lawbreaker. Running a red light by treating it like a stop sign is no different from what you do at a stop sign. Actually, what he is doing is safer than what most law-abiding people do at traffic lights. When the light turns green - they go - but don't look. That's dangerous.

I personally don't make a habit of running red lights purposely - but stuff happens. I have run a couple of close yellow/red lights because I was concerned the car behind me would not stop. I often drive a Mazda MX-5 (Miata)and I will take my chances with the light rather than get rear-ended at 45 mph by some soccer-mom in an Expedition talking on her cellphone. In an MX-5 - that could be fatal.

And every once in a while - late at night - I will run the left-turn light into my subdivision rather than sit in the left-turn lane like a duck in a shooting gallery waiting for some drunk to get confused, get into the turn lane and clobber me. If I rode a cycle I would probably do that more often.

And I don't hope bad things will happen to people just because they do things I consider careless. Even if they ARE foolish - I hope they are lucky - and live long happy lives.

Is he your son, father, uncle, cousin, father in law (outlaw), wife's uncle, dad, cousin, etc. etc.etc. How anyone can stick up for someone like that is beyond me. No matter how careful he is he is going to do harm to someone someday. Sorry there is no excuse in the world that can be made for purposely running red lights whether someone is coming or not.

charliepar actually has a good point. And in many instances there are laws that concede the point and allow for it legally.

What planet are you on????????

Earth. You?

Think about it. Try to not jump to conclusions.
... Anyone?

Ok, I'll give you a start- I'm pretty sure you won't find a law that uses the terms "run" or "running" when referring to what we're talking about here. It will be defined more precisely to spell out what the violation(s) actually are so it can (hopefully) not be mistaken by anyone as to the intent.

It is not logical. The premise is built on two devices that are defined differently but perform similar functions. Like saying there is no difference between a Tom-Tom or Garmin GPS - they both get you to a destination.

Stop signs and signals are defined differently even though they both function to control traffic. The only time I have seen traffic signals stated they are to be treated as a stop sign is when they are on flash. In this instance the light was not on flash, it was steady and therefore the blatant disregard of the condition of the signal was an infraction and punishable.

I actually spoke to a person at our local police department who was responsible for red light camera program, and was told that the camera is triggered if you cross after it turns red.

Also, video is taken if the camera is triggered, so they can review the event to confirm as well.

If groundhog were referring to Maryland, and we knew exactly what he meant by the term 'ran', then it's entirely possible that what he did could have been legal, and safe as far as we can tell.

The steady red of a traffic signal has exactly the same meaning as a stop sign. You must stop. Whether (when) you can then proceed depends on which device it is, and other posted restrictions. A traffic light only differs from a stop sign in that it also has a warning and a proceed indicator, as well as flashing variations of all of them.

As for traffic control signals in Maryland:
(i) Steady red indication - Entering intersection for right turn or for left turn from one-way street onto one-way street.- Unless a sign prohibiting a turn is in place, vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal, after stopping as required by subsection (h) of this section, cautiously may enter the intersection and make:
(1) A right turn; or
(2) A left turn from a one-way street onto a one-way street.

(j) Steady red indication - Entering intersection to make turn indicated by sign.- If a sign permitting any other turn is in place, vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal, after stopping as required by subsection (h) of this section, cautiously may enter the intersection and make the turn indicated by the sign.

I can think of quite a few places in Maryland where what (little) he described would be legal.
So if I were groundhog, I'd know who not to pick for my jury, and who not to get very close to for fear of injury.

"Traffic Light
n.
A road signal for directing vehicular traffic by means of colored lights, typically red for stop, green for go, and yellow for proceed with caution. Also called stoplight, traffic signal."

To me that has always meant the yellow does not mean slam on your brakes, but to PROCEED with caution.

http://www.answers.com/topic/traffic-light?cat=technology

http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yellow_light

The Illinois "Rules Of The Road" states the following.

"Yellow light – The yellow light warns that the signal is changing from green to red. When the red light appears, you may not enter the intersection."

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/rules_of_the_...

Nowhere does it say to stop on yellow.

There was a proposal floated here in Chicago to put count down timers at the lights, but it was shot down based on the argument it might encourage people to hurry to try to beat the timer-speed, ignore pedestrians etc. Here in IL at least a yellow light means, and I'm paraphrasing, Clearance for the intersection. If you've already cleared the crosswalk you are OK. If you haven't you're supposed to stop.