I got an Arizona "Notice of Violation" in the mail today

I agree with you 100%.

I have relatives in Chicago, and the mother let the daughter drive her car because the daughter's car was in the shop.

The daughter ran a red light accidentally, and the mother got the ticket. The daughter tried to ask to get the ticket put in her name, and the courts wouldn't not, and the ticket stuck to the mother.

Sounds like a really bad / unfair process.

Loan it out, Yes your resonsible and would have to give up the driver, not that agree with that.

Stolen, absolutely not! unless you didn't report it. Any car reported stolen in the United States will be put on a federal list received by every police department in the country, according to Officer Bob Favuzza of the Massachusetts State Police.

Fight till you stand before a judge, with documentation of the stolen car, and where and when it was stolen.

if your vehicle is stolen and, for example, involves in a hit-and-run or photo-based ticket, a police report on stolen vehicle would be helpful in clearing your liability on that.

It's not just AZ. My wife received a notice by First Class mail from the Illinois Turnpike with a picture and saying that she missed paying 3 tolls on their "Open Tollway". So they claimed she owed $2.40 in missed tolls and $60 in penalties! (Part of the Illinois State Revenue Enhancement Program.) Open Tollway in IL, we have since learned, means that if you do not have a pre-paid transmitter and account with iPass, you have to exit the highway, pay your toll, and get back on the highway again. This is a completely foreign concept to us. Past experience with other toll roads has you paying tolls at either toll-plazas and/or at your exit from the toll road. It is quite the racket!

Anyway, when you call in about the violation (I guess we should not even have acknowledged receipt), it is a very commercial-enterprise customer service type of operation... they don't use DMV or traffic court lingo about paying the violation. They do however, claim that they can notify the State of Ohio (where we live) DMV and they might/would deny registration of the vehicle next year. That scared my wife enough to insist that we pay it and be done with it.

Anyway, don't want to take this thread too far off course but very interested in the outcome and admire that you're standing up for your rights against this sham! It's not just AZ and it's not just speed and red lights that are handled this way.

Good Luck with the fight!

MMM ChE

Hi, BobDee.

I don't agree with it either. If I loaned one of my guns to a reputable friend, and then for some reason he used it to commit a crime, I may be in some hot water, but I probably wouldn't be held responsible. I don't see why motor vehicles should be any different.

As far as the car being stolen, you probably wouldn't be held responsible if you could prove it, but I worry about the implications of not knowing it was stolen for some time, and having a cop see an infraction and sending in the license plate #. Then you would almost have to prove that the vehicle was stolen before you even knew about it.

Oh boy, I did not know that Montgomery has automated speed enforcement. We come through there at least twice a year on I-65 going north or south depending on the season. What should I be looking for?

In AZ, a moving violation cannot be sent to the registered owner and expect them to be responsible without service. That is what all the fuss is about here and 'alternate' or 'drop' service as its called by some processors.

A parking ticket can and is the responsibility of the owner because it does not involve points on a license.

What many people fail to recognize is that many state governments, Arizona included, view drviing as a priviledge, not a right. Whether you live in this state or not, they can suspend your priviedge to drive in this state. When you get a ticket (served on you) and you don't pay it, they can suspend it here, and contact your state's motor vehicle (its called Non-Resident Violator Compact). AZ has such an agreement with about 46-47 states.

So that's the way its done here in AZ.

Several reasons why DPS may not cite slow drivers in left lanes....

1) Is the roadway posted that states slower drivers stay to right?

2) In AZ, there has to be 5 or more vehicles behind you to be impeding traffic (ARS 28-704)

Also, although the statute states 'normal flow of traffic', one cannot be compelled to exceed the posted speed limit. Someone in the HOV lane IS expected to obey the same speed limit signs as any other lane. I think that is where most people get frustrated....they think the HOV lane is a speed lane. It's not. It's a lane of 'convenience'.

New Arizona Govenor is taking hard look at photo radar. Gov. Jan Brewer, who took over the governor's office last month, hates photo radar, which was implemented by her predecessor, Janet Napolitano.

http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1041233

I live in AZ and HATE all the speeding and red light cameras that are going up. They don't allow for officer discretion at all. What I can say is I have had a few friends get tickets and just not pay them. Of course, they say that in that case you may then have to pay higher fines basically because you'll have to pay a process server to serve you the ticket, but I don't see how that's fair. The Post Office loses something like 10-20% of the mail (don't quote me on that, I've just heard that, it's probably lower, but I do know I've had mail lost plenty of times, so it happens)...anyway, you could easily argue the ticket never arrived to you. Also, if they can't prove it's you in court there's a legal loophole because if you don't agree to testify they can't make you say it's you because we have a right to plead the 5th (not to incriminate ourselves under oath). That's only if you take it to traffic court to fight though. Anyway, if I ever see a traffic camera coming up, I just turn my head to the side or hold my hand up because they can't ticket you if they can't make out a face (though I don't speed through them or run red lights, I just don't trust them). Here in Tucson there's only a handful and a roaving truck, so it's pretty easy to avoid em. Up in Phoenix it's a whole other story. I think they're trying to make up their budget shortfall with speeding and red light cameras which will most likely only nab out of staters that don't know where the cameras are along the usual routes. People from out of state will be more likely to fork over the money because they can't come to traffic court here to fight it. So far I've had 3 friends in Phoenix (not Tucson) ignore tickets from cameras and it's been over 6 months, so who knows, maybe they just don't bother with the people who don't respond because of the money and time involved, not to mention the question of legality.

Over the weekend, my wife received another violation notice in the mail. I compared this one to the last one she received and this one is identical except that there is actually court information on it. It appears that the civil suit has been filed against her and a court date has been set for the end of May. I know the State can't serve you via USPS, but I would think that a person would have to be served to be notified of a court date. Interestingly enough, the notice did say that if you did not show up for the court date, then you would be served for criminal proceedings. Seems to me to be a last ditch effort to collect the fine.

The person whose name was on the ticket was someone at Redflex. I wonder what would happen if you filed a civil suit against the Redflex person that filed the original suit? Would almost cetainly make headlines here in AZ.

I hate all these speed cameras. They've publically claimed that these are a success since accidents are down. Oddly enough though, other states (without said cameras) are also seeing a decline in accidents last year.

Don't suppose it could possibly be related to people driving less miles when gas was $4+ a gallon? Bozos who do these studies and try to sell them to gullible people.

That's becoming quite interesting: Let us know how it ends up, one way of the other.

... and good luck!

I have had no personal service yet and no response to the letter I sent about my Arizona speed camera notice of violation.

I didn't expect one. They have another month for the 120 days they have to serve me.

One thing I heard on the radio yesterday, the Auto Club has announced the entire State of Arizona is now a "Strict Enforcement Zone". The whole state.

My impression from reading the paper is that the state legislature is planning on dumping that whole program. I hope they do.

Some simple tricks to avoid the speed camera violations:

1. Put your wifes car in your name and her name on your registration.

2. If more than one licensed driver in the vehicle, let the person that does not own the vehicle drive.

3. If you do get a citation and you are the owner, and not the driver, all you have to do is make a copy of your license and send it in with part 2 of the citation. You do not have to disclose the name of the actual driver.

4. I realize that I am going out on a limb with the following recomendation, but here goes.

SLOW DOWN.

5. The cameras are set to activate at 11 mph over. So keep it under 10 over and your ok.

6. You can take a ticket to court, but it will cost you $20.00 court cost because these tickets do not go through the normal court system. (Where the court gets a cut of the money) Some courts refuse to even take the case.

Here is a link to the DPS website and a map showing all of the cameras.

http://photoenforcement.azdps.gov/Cameras/

BEWARE. DPS also has several mobil units that pop up anywhere.

Welcome to Arizona. Ya'll come back now.

It is just getting crazy here in AZ with all the cameras and the roving vans! I'm not trying to advocate speeding, but sometimes you just happen to make a simple mistake. Who at some point in their life who has ever driven and has not looked down and realized they were accidentally going over the limit? That's why I like getting pulled over by a police office who can use his discretion for a few reasons. For example, I was on I-10 a few months back and had an issue with my blood sugar (I'm type 1 diabetic). Fortunately, there was a police officer that I could explain the situation to and who was able to recognize I needed medical attention and not a speeding ticket. How likely is it that a judge is going to buy that excuse after the fact? (not to mention the officer probably saved my life) Before anyone says anything, in 18 years of having type 1 diabetes and 13 years of driving, this is the first and only time I've had a problem with my blood sugars without recognizing the warning signs. I ALWAYS test them before driving for my safety and the safety of the other drivers around me.

Anyway, I think there's a lot to be said about being able to personally speak with the officer pulling you over. I honestly think the reason there are so many new cameras in Phoenix is because of all the budget shortfalls. These things have to be raking in the big bucks.

Just exactly how do you have a secondary cause for an accident?

Your comments are right on! I live in Palm Desert and have to travel to Scottsdale several times a year. I have not been hit with any tickets but the speed cameras do add stress to the driving.
JeffSh

one of my friends said, she could always convinces police officers when she was pulled over and received less than a traffic ticket. With red light/speed camera, she is afraid it is not that way any more.

I can tell you what to do, and that is; Nothing. Do nothing. I'm not an attorney, just a cab driver with my own business in Phx. AZ. In the last 5 years I have gotten oh ... 6 or more of the infamous "photo radar" tickets and have never paid one of them. You have to be "Served" and believe me, they won't serve you all the way in CA.

There is a group called www.camerafraud.com if you're inerested in your rights as a "human being" and I think we all are intitled to those rights if I'm not mistaken. Good luck with your ticket.. or rather, your letter of violation? Drive safe, Greg

Greg,
your a cab driver right?
You admit this, In the last 5 years I have gotten oh ... 6 or more of the infamous "photo radar" tickets.

shouldn't you just slow down or make that stop and not worry about them?

I also agree that they indeed are revenue enhancement for community's, but I would rather they take your money for infractions on these new laws. then taking these from me, raising taxes,cutting services,closing city pools, closing parks and of course laying off even more city employees.

I felt just like you, and kicked and cried about them too,and you know what didn't pay one either and man that was slick, No points on the licsence no way for them to stop me from buying tags for the car, I got away Scott free!

Then they started to call my house, Collection people telling me I owed this to the city, and of course I said "I don't owe them anything".
I finally got the epiphany,after all three credit reporting agency's developed a reflected my non payment on my score.

In the most recent issue of "Westways', the AAA of California monthly magazine, there was a notice to all drivers alerting them that the state of Arizona has installed numerous cameras along freeways and are also using mobile units in the state.
Even the AAA has concerns regarding the use of these devices.
JeffSh

Apparently, there are three citizen initiatives in Arizona to do away with enforcement cameras.

http://camerafraud.wordpress.com/

and there was a murder of a speed camera van operator in Arizona. Unbelievable.

Published: 04.27.2009

Slaying fuels debate over speed cameras in Ariz.
By Amanda Lee Myers
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
PHOENIX — The debate over the first statewide speed camera enforcement program in the nation has reached a boiling point following the fatal shooting of a camera operator.

http://www.azstarnet.com/sn/printDS/290477

In Arizona you just check the box that says it wasn't you. You also send a picture of your license. My buddy did that and heard nothing.

All this stuff varies by state. You may be absolutely right, Steevo, when it comes to Arizona, and I hope that you are right, because I'm on your side in this case. But in Illinois, for example, the state statute for enforcement cameras (red light, speed, and toll evasion) are written to make it illegal for the camera to photograph the driver's face! And all they have to do under the state statute is cite the owner of the car, as mentioned, just like a parking ticket, and that person is responsible for the fine. Your only way out in Illinois is to prove that they have the wrong car (which does happen and can be proven), or prove that the car couldn't have possibly been where they say it was when they said it was (and that's usually hard to do).

In any different state than the one being discussed in one of these cases: Your Mileage May Vary!

Very good thinking. And what do you think government do when those revenues from "criminal outsiders" will not be enough? Maybe they should find pretext to confiscate theirs cars? Och right, it is happening in Texas.
BobDee, and how You feel when going out of Your city? How nice to be targeted for revenue primary because you are outsider?
Maybe instead of looking for people to rip them off they should clean their act and stop wasting money? But it seems that You are ok with waste and corruption as long as money are being taken from somebody else than You?

My wife and I discussed the fact that you are supposed to be served in AZ when you get a ticket. She has received two notices in the mail, neither of them sent certified. I left the decision up to my wife and she decided that we would wait until she gets served properly before doing anything regarding her speed camera ticket since there's no proof that we ever received the civil notices. Guess we'll wait and see what happens.

Hey today is 11/1/2010- how long ago was the last ticket?

Give 'em Hell!!!

So whatever became of these notifications?

To answer your question. Let's say we have a crash involving a fatality. Let's say it was started by a child running in front of your vehicle, and, let's say that as a result of the child running in front of the vehicle the driver swerved and hit a tree. The primary cause is the child running in front of the vehicle. The secondary cause is the vehicle swerving and striking the tree resulting in the fatality. As a former LEO we used primary/secondary all the time in investigating vehicle crashes.

He was probably texting on his cell phone...

I live in Arizona and have many friends who are cops. I asked them just last week about tickets being mailed to you. They all said they have received the same type tickets in the mail and they all throw them away. They said in Arizona you MUST be served physically, not by mail. They have been promoting a bill to allow tickets to be sent by mail but it hasn't passed yet.

or.. he maybe looking at his cell phone for directions.

wegasque, I see it's well past the 120 days. What was the final outcome concerning this 'notice'?

RT

its like that here in MO The min speed on interstate hwys are 40 and the max is 70

Nothing. It's been two years.

I checked the Arizona court system and I am not listed.

They didn't respond to my letter either.

We ended up ignoring the notice (and the second one...and the third) and waited out the service period. No one in our house was served.

This whole process is interesting to me. you would think that they would change the law and spend the extra cash to send it to you registered mail so they have a record of it being delivered and a signature on file. I think this would take away most of the arguments out there. My whole argument was that the State couldn't prove that I recieved it. Thanks for following up RT.