Black Box in your car? The government is NOT your friend

 
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"Ceterum autem censeo, Carthaginem esse delendam" “When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”

What's next?

Well, 'next' is when your insurance company hooks up to your box every year, data extracted, and then gives you your insurance cost for the year.

If they choose to insure you at all...

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nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Already here

What's next must be about something other than EDRs becase EDRs are already here.

Yup. And Have been

"The devices have been in use for about 20 years.

GM began widely installing the predecessor version of today's event data recorders in vehicles in the 1990 model year, and they became standard equipment in light duty vehicles in the 1995 model year."

..And have been in any vehicle with airbags, and most Bosch powertrain ECMs for at least 10 years, I think.

Next is vehicles communicating in the background with other vehicles and the infrastructure. (can you say roads. bridges, speed & emission sensors?)

There's a thread here someplace that has a link to DOT's plan.

EDIT- Found it-
http://www.its.dot.gov/press/2010/vii2intellidrive.htm

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It's about the Line- If a line can be drawn between the powers granted and the rights retained, it would seem to be the same thing, whether the latter be secured by declaring that they shall not be abridged, or that the former shall not be extended.

Interesting...

Will the black box determine if someone is shoving a BigMac through their face or having a cell phone glued to their head?

If it can't, then it is worthless. Not sure of the statistics, but I believe that most crashes occur as a result of being distracted, which can't be determined by the box. They need to come up with a better solution than this.

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Streetpilot C340 Nuvi 2595 LMT

A substantial move in the

A substantial move in the direction of Big Brother!

None of their business.

Fred

Road Sensors

There's a section of highway in San Diego, California that has sensors implanted (at considerable cost) that was supposed to communicate with a device in vehicles. I assume it was to regulate speed and traffic flow by taking control of your vehicle. Except for some initial testing, I don't think anyone uses the technology.

A matter of time (and profit)

spullis wrote:

There's a section of highway in San Diego, California that has sensors implanted (at considerable cost) that was supposed to communicate with a device in vehicles. I assume it was to regulate speed and traffic flow by taking control of your vehicle. Except for some initial testing, I don't think anyone uses the technology.

Go to the DOT link I posted above and look for the "Chicken and Egg" heading.

Ford's Sync is the base architecture for this smart vehicle stuff. Bill Ford is an advocate of it and he's already aimed Ford in that direction. It may not become a complete system for quite a while but it's inevitable, imo.

Here's a mention of Ford's comments about the subject at TED. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/03/bill-ford-ted-2011_... The first 1/2 is about his 'green-ness' but the last 1/2 is his thinking on smart vehicle technology.

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It's about the Line- If a line can be drawn between the powers granted and the rights retained, it would seem to be the same thing, whether the latter be secured by declaring that they shall not be abridged, or that the former shall not be extended.

Distracted is major cause

shrifty wrote:

Will the black box determine if someone is shoving a BigMac through their face or having a cell phone glued to their head?

If it can't, then it is worthless. Not sure of the statistics, but I believe that most crashes occur as a result of being distracted, which can't be determined by the box. They need to come up with a better solution than this.

However, the "black box" (wonder what its real color is) should have significant value in determining other parameters such as speed, deceleration, etc. that would be helpful in understanding - in the case of accidents - what was going on just prior to impact.

This device is certainly not the total answer, but is one of a range of tools that can contribute to safer vehicles.

I agree to a point

jgermann wrote:
shrifty wrote:

Will the black box determine if someone is shoving a BigMac through their face or having a cell phone glued to their head?

If it can't, then it is worthless. Not sure of the statistics, but I believe that most crashes occur as a result of being distracted, which can't be determined by the box. They need to come up with a better solution than this.

However, the "black box" (wonder what its real color is) should have significant value in determining other parameters such as speed, deceleration, etc. that would be helpful in understanding - in the case of accidents - what was going on just prior to impact.

This device is certainly not the total answer, but is one of a range of tools that can contribute to safer vehicles.

I agree to a point in that it will tell what is going on with the vehicle, however it will not determine what is going on with the driver.

According to the "blackbox" (I'd be curious to know the color if it too) this woman was probably not speeding or doing anything wrong however...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29441879/ns/us_news-crime_and_co...

I realize this is an extreme case, however it is not uncommon to see a significant number of drivers not paying attention, which would not be detected by this type of device. It would appear as if the driver is doing the right thing when they are clearly not.

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Streetpilot C340 Nuvi 2595 LMT

I'm OK with it

It is a great tool when used to analyze a crash. Anytime an airbag deploys, the police or body shop can add the data to the accident report. How about a few seconds of video as well? The info can clear me of charges as well as condemn me.
The lead locomotive of nearly all trains have a data recorder and a camera.
I'm not thrilled about Congress making the rules though. The wording seems to leave it subject to interpretation. (Attorneys)

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1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

Video

spokybob wrote:

It is a great tool when used to analyze a crash. Anytime an airbag deploys, the police or body shop can add the data to the accident report. How about a few seconds of video as well? The info can clear me of charges as well as condemn me.
The lead locomotive of nearly all trains have a data recorder and a camera.
I'm not thrilled about Congress making the rules though. The wording seems to leave it subject to interpretation. (Attorneys)

Hate to say it, but I agree with the video. This would help to give a better picture of the scenario. Not just of the driver, but outside of the car as well. This will determine if they were in their own lane, ran red light, etc....

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Streetpilot C340 Nuvi 2595 LMT

Video a bit too much for me

While I agree that a device that captured video would be helpful in analyzing a crash, I would personally be uncomfortable with video or voice recording as an integral part of car equipment.

BLACK BOX

jgermann wrote:

While I agree that a device that captured video would be helpful in analyzing a crash, I would personally be uncomfortable with video or voice recording as an integral part of car equipment.

According to my vehicle manual, if the police want the black box after an accident, they will have to get a search warrant. I belive everything is recorded in your auto computer.

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3790LMT; 2595LMT; 3590LMT, 60LMTHD

Call my attorney

rthibodaux wrote:

According to my vehicle manual, if the police want the black box after an accident, they will have to get a search warrant.

Is an accident required?

How about if a civil attorney wants the data??

Interesting

These have been around in various forms for longer than I realized. More information at:
wikipedia: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Event_data_re...

"Black" Box

shrifty wrote:

Will the black box determine if someone is shoving a BigMac through their face or having a cell phone glued to their head?

If it can't, then it is worthless. Not sure of the statistics, but I believe that most crashes occur as a result of being distracted, which can't be determined by the box. They need to come up with a better solution than this.

It will tell you the velocity and acceleration of the vehicle immediately prior to impact. When investigating an accident just knowing these data will be of significant help.

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nuvi 855. Life is not fair. I don't care who told you it is.

Mission Creep

In the beginning, its for greater safety, and maybe even "for the children".

It wont be long before the government will access YOUR information for revenue enhancement. They will have access to the miles you drive, and tax you on milage to bolster the fuel taxes already collected.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg to what they can and will do with your information. Talk about an enhanced alternative to speed cameras! Now you carry your own speeding ticket dispenser with you everywhere!

The US Constitution guarantees us Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness. There is no right to "safety". If you really want to be entirely safe, don't travel at all.
But this is an example of Liberty being eroded. Again.

gonna stay home....NOT !!!

gonna stay home....NOT !!!

From Declaration of Independence

grtlake wrote:

The US Constitution guarantees us Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness. ...
But this is an example of Liberty being eroded. Again.

Many people associate the above phrase with our constitution, but it really is from the second section of the Declaration of Independence:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

If...

If they want the black box, then they pay for the black box wink

tax money

allbizz wrote:

If they want the black box, then they pay for the black box wink

that is our tax money.

OLD cars will be worth more

I can't see them retrofitting these into older cars. Even seat belts are not required in older cars. They can add anything they want but I will continue to drive my 41 year old lotus,

as long as it isn't too cold.

Bob

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Robert Woodcock

Next is when...

Next is when they use that information to actively monitor your driving habits and in conjunction with a GPS track you down for a ticket.

well, the cure for that

DaOneEnOnly wrote:

Next is when they use that information to actively monitor your driving habits and in conjunction with a GPS track you down for a ticket.

The cure for that is ride a horse. No gas tax and there's plenty of free fuel along the side of the road.

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Illiterate? Write for free help.

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Box Car wrote:

The cure for that is ride a horse. No gas tax and there's plenty of free fuel along the side of the road.

I wouldn't let an animal of mine eat ditch grass... runoff from the roadway, and the herbicide it's laced with because they'd rather spray than mow it...

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*Keith* MacBook Pro *wifi iPad(2012) w/BadElf GPS & iPhone6 + Navigon*

Hay -

kch50428 wrote:
Box Car wrote:

The cure for that is ride a horse. No gas tax and there's plenty of free fuel along the side of the road.

I wouldn't let an animal of mine eat ditch grass... runoff from the roadway, and the herbicide it's laced with because they'd rather spray than mow it...

But no black boxes.

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Illiterate? Write for free help.

You're on the right track

DaOneEnOnly wrote:

Next is when they use that information to actively monitor your driving habits and in conjunction with a GPS track you down for a ticket.

I can top that as depicted in the film "The Fifth Element" in which Bruce Wills is driving in the future. Every moving violation is recorded with immediate audible feedback to the driver (dispensing with all that time-wasting "due process" nonsense), the fine is electronically withdrawn from your bank account, and when you've accumulated enough violation points to demonstrate that you are unfit as a driver, the car is electronically powered down and locked like the Batmobile. Hey, driving is a privilege (to feed the government money), not a right.

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JMoo On

Thank You for the correction!

jgermann wrote:

Many people associate the above phrase with our constitution, but it really is from the second section of the Declaration of Independence:

You are right....I stand corrected.
Sometimes I get so fired up about the topic of government intervention I cite the wrong document.
Everyone needs to be familiar with both the Declaration and the Constitution.

black box on bike

will they extend that to bike to get more revenue?

Of course!

abin wrote:

will they extend that to bike to get more revenue?

Today the car.
Tomorrow the bike.
The day after tomorrow to those who choose to walk but may jaywalk.

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JMoo On