new & interesting places for your GPS

How much information does your GPS store about where you have been?

 

Let's say your GPS gets into the "wrong hands" - some person(s) with ulterior motives to reconstruct where you have been after the fact. (Notice I'm not saying where you are now.) Obviously your favorites are there, and if you have an active, current route your programmed destination is trivial, but can your origin (or more generally history of where you have been) be reconstructed through cached data on your GPS? Is this stored data typically stored in volatile or non-volatile memory? Does it make a difference on historical data caching if you have an active route programmed versus just having been "driving around" with the GPS on?

Not that I have anything to hide (really, I don't smile, I'm just curious about this, given we have virtually no privacy any more in other areas, both in a technical sense with other common gadgets - e.g. with cell phones and PCs - and in a legal sense. I wonder if forensic experts for law enforcement and/or divorce lawyers smile have subpoena'd / seized someone's personal GPS and reconstructed their movements? I am thinking if it's technically possible, it will surface in some court sooner or later.

Yes, it's possible

Which is a good reason to delete the track data from the GPS daily. It stores where you have been; the dates, times, and how long it took you to get there can be calculated.

Now, like you, I have nothing to hide, but data can, and always has been abused by the powers that be. In my mind, it's no more than a CYA move.

People have been convicted with GPS data. Is this relevant to the average person? It may, or may not be.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Wrong hands!

Hopefully a "Wife or Husband" is not the wrong hands.
LOL
It would be a hell of a way to get caught cheating by you own GPS. They could back track you to the "girlfriend or boyfriends" house.

--
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things!

Juggernaut

Thanks Juggernaut, but I wonder if the data is really truly deleted if you "erase" your track log. As you may know, in the case of a hard drive on a PC, you must write over deleted data with specialized software multiple times for it to be truly unrecoverable (besides physically destroying it). If the GPS records the information in FLASH (non-volatile) memory, as most GPS units don't have a HDD, that is different than an HDD in terms of data recovery. I have not researched forensic recovery from FLASH memory, but it is an interesting question.

Gps history

if you are concerned about where you have been with a gps you are going to be spending alot of time erasing history. It is my understanding that ram is cleared and does not have the "memory: of a hd

Careful

Careful, that's what I'll be. smile

--
Bob: My toys: Nüvi 1390T, Droid X2, Nook Color (rooted), Motorola Xoom, Kindle 2, a Yo-Yo and a Slinky. Gotta have toys.

Wait a minute...

Dwshouston wrote:

if you are concerned about where you have been with a gps you are going to be spending alot of time erasing history. It is my understanding that ram is cleared and does not have the "memory: of a hd

Not quite true. Clearing your logs contributes to faster boot times as has been mentioned on this forum.

As for clearing memory completely; no, it doesn't. There are ghost images left on any drive that can be recovered. Again, we've discussed this on trying to get back a member's OS from his borked nuvi. It was successful.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

May have been back far ....

Juggernaut wrote:

Clearing your logs contributes to faster boot times as has been mentioned on this forum.

That thread may have been back far enough that it was before I became a member, so I apologize if it was a few weeks ago since I have slept since then. A quick search did not bring up anything that seemed to relate.

What would be the reason that the log would be accessed during boot up?

.

Well, I can't remember the exact context but, if there there are only so many points on a track, then the nuvi needs to know when to create a new track, right? Plus, it has to wade through all the old track logs etc.

The thread is here: http://www.poi-factory.com/node/18280

It was an oldie that was resurrected.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Not sure what "information"

Not sure what "information" Garmin gathers on it's customers and end users but this sentence from their website about "their" Privacy Policy makes one wonder.

What information are they collecting?

"This Policy does not address our practices regarding information that we collect through our products or applications, when you register a product on my.Garmin.com, or when you interact with our support personnel."

http://www8.garmin.com/privacy/

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OK.....so where the heck am I?

Absolutely!

Orangeman1971 wrote:

.... but can your origin (or more generally history of where you have been) be reconstructed through cached data on your GPS?

The models with a track log show time and date travelled, plus speed and other data. Handy stuff! You can easily see the time spent at a particular location. And yes, this has indeed been subpoenaed in numerous cases.

What about a thief...

I am not worried about the law or my wife, but what if someone can use my GPS to figure out where I live. I have "home" set to a nearby gas station but, if you know how to lookup the log or tracks it would not be too hard to figure out where I start and end most days. And I don't see any way to turn this off. All I can find is a way to clear it on my 265WT.

.

Take your unit with you. Always.

--
nüvi 3790T | nüvi 775T | Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable ~ JFK

Paranoid?

Are you in the public phonebook?

Clark Howard mention this site on his HLN show:
http://www.spokeo.com

Do you keep car receipts, registration or insurance cards in your glove box?

Somebody's got to be pretty dumb to have a GPS powered on while they are committing a crime serious enough for the CSI team.

If in a divorce, I hope you get caught if you are cheating and your spouse takes you to the cleaners for being so dumb as to leave a GPS powered on.

--
Zumo 550 & Zumo 665 My alarm clock is sunshine on chrome.

I agree!!

Dave, I agree with you totally.

Hacking

I'm wondering if a hacker could falsify the track log so that it would "prove" that he was not even at that location at the time in question.

--
1490LMT 1450LMT 295w

Quick Solution

Paranoia seems to run deep in some people's minds. If someone is THAT concerned about Big Brother, the solution is to stop using a GPS!

Not a big deal

It really isn't a big deal to me. I never go any place I shouldn't be going. grin

--
GPSMAP 76CSx - nüvi 760 - nüvi 200 - GPSMAP 78S

Leaving GPS in car

There was a case in Queens NY a few years ago at a expensive restaurant when some body left their car with the valet and went in to eat. They left theit GPS in the car. Somebody took their keys and stole the car, with the GPS they found out their address and went to their home and used the house keys on the ring to rob the house. Bad enough to lose the car but to get robbed at the same time hurts.
1. Never leave the GPS in the car.
2. Don't leave your house keys on the same ring.
PS: It seems the valet was in on it.

--
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things!

Hmmm. I have been wondering

Hmmm. I have been wondering why my wife never lets me use her GPS ....

--
Garmin i5, 260W, 1450LMT, 2460LMT, iPhone Viago

Urban ledgend

Timantide wrote:

There was a case in Queens NY a few years ago at a expensive restaurant when some body left their car with the valet and went in to eat. They left theit GPS in the car. Somebody took their keys and stole the car, with the GPS they found out their address and went to their home and used the house keys on the ring to rob the house. Bad enough to lose the car but to get robbed at the same time hurts.
1. Never leave the GPS in the car.
2. Don't leave your house keys on the same ring.
PS: It seems the valet was in on it.

This story has been around the world (not just the block) quite a few times. The location changes along with the supposed accomplice, but the gist always stays the same.

--
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy, 35th U.S. president

.

Why all the paranoia?

Many of today's cars have their internal GPS units and keep their own records of where you've been, when you were there and how fast you drove along the way . . . .

If you are a spy or something, as has been mentioned even deleting tracklog information won't help you because the spooks can recover that stuff, though your wife's private investigator? Likely not.

Then again, all he would do is attach his own tracker to your car and let the magic of GPS and the cellular network collect that information independent of any other technology you may have.

Jammers would help for pure GPS solutions, but cellular-based tracking would need another jammer and they both would need power - it starts to get messy, since you couldn't use your own cell phone or navigator if you went that route.

The best bet it likely to get a bicycle or walk if you prefer to do everything possible keep your movements more-or-less private.

--
Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T

paranoia?

Just because I know there are satellites tracking every move I make and you can't tell me all those black SUV's aren't following me on cloudy days. Don't worry about the GPS, worry about your Government.

--
Looking for a place to go this summer? Try Oshkosh, WI, July 25 - 31, 2011. The largest gathering of aircraft in the world. http://www.airventure.org/index.html

Paranoia or Delusions of Granduer?

I wonder if people are really THAT paranoid, or they think they are important enough that someone would be interested in their where-abouts twisted

Several things... (my 2 cents)

To share my limited GPS knowledge...

1) From a police standpoint, It is unlikely the officer will want to take the time to take your GPS over to his cruiser and link it to his laptop to download the track log data and get your top MPH and where you did it, just to bust someone on.

2) What is more likely is the extended trip data screen where it records and displays your max speed since the last reset. This is the screen that concerns me and I stay ready to clear it if pulled over. And if I pass someone and get going a little too fast, I clear the excessive max speed right away.

3) As far as fully deleting all the stored data when cleared on the unit... I would say that it fully clears. The accessable file being the current.gpx file seems to always gets rewritten when something is added or deleted.

Even if the flash memory did retain data like a HD does, I would assume that that data would be overwritten when the file is updated, as it probably stays in the same memory blocks as before unless deleted manually and may come back in another memory block.

4) I ALWAYS take my GPS with me. Not because I cant replace it, as I can, or losing personal data which is limited, but if it is stolen from my car, I now have to deal with a window replacement and any other damage caused during the break-in.

5) In all, if we all be decent and dont go places we shouldnt be going, keep our speed reasonable, and dont leave our GPS behind, we should all be ok.

Vanman

as to

TheVanman wrote:

To share my limited GPS knowledge...

1) From a police standpoint, It is unlikely the officer will want to take the time to take your GPS over to his cruiser and link it to his laptop to download the track log data and get your top MPH and where you did it, just to bust someone on.

2) What is more likely is the extended trip data screen where it records and displays your max speed since the last reset. This is the screen that concerns me and I stay ready to clear it if pulled over. And if I pass someone and get going a little too fast, I clear the excessive max speed right away.

As to these two, a police officer examining them without a warrant would be illegal search and seizure. The data is not openly displayed, and there is no date time to when the max speed on the speedometer display was recorded.

--
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy, 35th U.S. president

some are twisted

DanielT wrote:

I wonder if people are really THAT paranoid, or they think they are important enough that someone would be interested in their where-abouts twisted

You hit it right on the head.
If I was that paranoid, I would put my GPSr on the curb and let the gremlins follow the garbage man. Or never leave my hidding place.

Now on the other hand… if I had something to hide, I would leave the GPSr at home, period.

--
Using Android Based GPS.The above post and my sig reflects my own opinions, expressed for the purpose of informing or inspiring, not commanding. Naturally, you are free to reject or embrace whatever you read.

.

BobDee wrote:

Now on the other hand… if I had something to hide, I would leave the GPSr at home, period.

Why?

As long as YOU have it no one can tell what is stored inside the unit - now, if you use a smart phone, then all bets are off.

Note that if someone really wants to tag you, they will, and they will do it with THEIR own equipment secreted in your vehicle.

--
Currently have: SP3, GPSMAP 276c, Nuvi 760T, Nuvi 3790LMT, Zumo 660T

I'm not worried

TheVanman wrote:

2) What is more likely is the extended trip data screen where it records and displays your max speed since the last reset. This is the screen that concerns me and I stay ready to clear it if pulled over. And if I pass someone and get going a little too fast, I clear the excessive max speed right away.

My Max Speed reading right now is 467 mph. I took it on my last flight and never cleared it. I wonder how many points you get for going 402 miles an hour over the limit?

--
Brent - 2350LMT, 3790LMT, 3597LMTHD

Lost

The simple reason I only use my GPS if I am lost or out of town. In either of those situations you can bet I am not speeding.

Check your history

Well, check back into the not so distant past when the East German Stasi and Soviet KGB kept extensive records on countless folks that you might suppose would not be all that interesting. But then you might suppose that would never, ever happen in the USA where the 4th Amendment to the Constitution is inviolate. Then again, check the recent story where the 9th Circuit court of Appeals says it's OK for the government to enter your driveway at your residence and attach a tracking device to your vehicle because you supposedly have no reasonable expectation of privacy. Outrage from your elected officials? No, hardly. Haven't heard a peep.

New technology means never having to say you're sorry...

Orangeman1971 wrote:

Well, check back into the not so distant past when the East German Stasi and Soviet KGB kept extensive records on countless folks that you might suppose would not be all that interesting. But then you might suppose that would never, ever happen in the USA where the 4th Amendment to the Constitution is inviolate. Then again, check the recent story where the 9th Circuit court of Appeals says it's OK for the government to enter your driveway at your residence and attach a tracking device to your vehicle because you supposedly have no reasonable expectation of privacy. Outrage from your elected officials? No, hardly. Haven't heard a peep.

One only has to google “Cointelpro” to gauge the extent of abuse of power directed at political targets. Today if, for example, you happen to oppose national health care and are sufficiently vocal about it, then you might just arouse the ire of its supporters.

Couldn't happen? Oh no, we're too enlightened to fall prey again to these abuses. Besides, we've already traded our rights under the social contract in exchange for the pleasures of new technology.

Paranoia

DanielT wrote:

Paranoia seems to run deep in some people's minds. If someone is THAT concerned about Big Brother, the solution is to stop using a GPS!

You know your paranoid when your room is padded, no windows or furniture.

Erasure Query

How do you erase your log?

--
RKF (Bethesda, MD) Garmin Nuvi 660, 360 & Street Pilot

How to clear log

rkf wrote:

How do you erase your log?

Go to “Tools”, “My Data”, “Clear Trip Log”.

--
"There's no substitute for local knowledge"

No Paranoia, No Delusions Of Grandeur

Not paranoid or deluding myself, how about you?

So no one here has EVER driven through or close by a 'known drug trafficking area'? How about an area where a crime was committed or a bomb threat made?

Just saying enjoy the technology, be aware of who else also has it (or more advanced) and thinks differently than you do, and most of all- keep a CLOSE eye on your government.

Me, I just wrap my Garmin in tin foil when I use it.

--
It's about the Line- If a line can be drawn between the powers granted and the rights retained, it would seem to be the same thing, whether the latter be secured by declaring that they shall not be abridged, or that the former shall not be extended.

We're getting there

Orangeman1971 wrote:

Well, check back into the not so distant past when the East German Stasi and Soviet KGB kept extensive records on countless folks that you might suppose would not be all that interesting. But then you might suppose that would never, ever happen in the USA where the 4th Amendment to the Constitution is inviolate. Then again, check the recent story where the 9th Circuit court of Appeals says it's OK for the government to enter your driveway at your residence and attach a tracking device to your vehicle because you supposedly have no reasonable expectation of privacy. Outrage from your elected officials? No, hardly. Haven't heard a peep.

Slowly but surely we're getting to the point where everything that is not forbidden is ... mandatory!

Thats Awsome!!!

brentrn wrote:
TheVanman wrote:

2) What is more likely is the extended trip data screen where it records and displays your max speed since the last reset. This is the screen that concerns me and I stay ready to clear it if pulled over. And if I pass someone and get going a little too fast, I clear the excessive max speed right away.

My Max Speed reading right now is 467 mph. I took it on my last flight and never cleared it. I wonder how many points you get for going 402 miles an hour over the limit?

I did that last year on a plane ride, and took some screen shots of it. We had a serious tailwind and got to a whopping 701mph! We had a moving avg of 645mph.

Since I got a screenshot, I didnt bother to keep it on the GPS.

I would love to see an officers face if he did see it displayed.....He may look around the car for mounting tabs for the rocket boosters!

Very valid point...thank you!

Box Car wrote:
TheVanman wrote:

To share my limited GPS knowledge...

1) From a police standpoint, It is unlikely the officer will want to take the time to take your GPS over to his cruiser and link it to his laptop to download the track log data and get your top MPH and where you did it, just to bust someone on.

2) What is more likely is the extended trip data screen where it records and displays your max speed since the last reset. This is the screen that concerns me and I stay ready to clear it if pulled over. And if I pass someone and get going a little too fast, I clear the excessive max speed right away.

As to these two, a police officer examining them without a warrant would be illegal search and seizure. The data is not openly displayed, and there is no date time to when the max speed on the speedometer display was recorded.

Thanks for the reply BoxCar.

As you said he would need a warrant if not openly displayed. However, if we are on that screen and dont think to navigate back away and an officer sees it, he may be able to justify giving a ticket.

Depending on his mood, I suppose he can write us for what he saw, or at least decide not to give us a break and write the ticket after all. If we fight the ticket, it is almost always the officers word over ours, unless there is overwhelming evidence proving otherwise. I have been down that road several times before...

To update my 1st post, I bought disk recovery software yesterday to recover a dead HD. I decided to try an experiment on flash memory. Deleted files DO stay behind on flash memory after deletion, just as they do on a HD.

Not that it matters to me, as I dont download things I shouldnt have. Just a correction/update to my earlier comments.

Be safe Labor Day everyone!

Sad but true...

jale wrote:
Orangeman1971 wrote:

Well, check back into the not so distant past when the East German Stasi and Soviet KGB kept extensive records on countless folks that you might suppose would not be all that interesting. But then you might suppose that would never, ever happen in the USA where the 4th Amendment to the Constitution is inviolate. Then again, check the recent story where the 9th Circuit court of Appeals says it's OK for the government to enter your driveway at your residence and attach a tracking device to your vehicle because you supposedly have no reasonable expectation of privacy. Outrage from your elected officials? No, hardly. Haven't heard a peep.

Slowly but surely we're getting to the point where everything that is not forbidden is ... mandatory!

Sadly, we are reaping what we sow.

The majority of Americans have elected those that have been implementing the destruction of our privacy and our wealth as a people and a nation. They are both Republican AND Democrat alike. We have been moving towards a dynasty government for a quite a while now where our elected officials could care less what we think unless it is 2 months before an election.

It is our own fault and have no one else to blame.

Relevant links

The following relevant links might be enlightening.

http://criminal.lawyers.com/traffic-violations/Unlawful-Vehi...

and

http://www.gpsforensics.org/

Not as relevant to gps, but enlightening nonetheless-

http://www.totallawyers.com/legal-articles-cell-phone-eviden...
&
http://www.nacdl.org/public.nsf/01c1e7698280d20385256d0b0078...

More food for thought than most mental stomachs can hold. (Including mine!)

--
It's about the Line- If a line can be drawn between the powers granted and the rights retained, it would seem to be the same thing, whether the latter be secured by declaring that they shall not be abridged, or that the former shall not be extended.

gps info

sometimes technology works against us because of the presence evil.

No warrant for cell phone tracking

The FBI and other police agencies don't need a search warrant to track the locations of Americans' cell phones, a federal appeals court ruled on Tuesday in a precedent-setting decision.

A three-judge panel of the Third Circuit said tracking cell phones "does not require the traditional probable-cause determination" enshrined in the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits government agencies from conducting "unreasonable" searches.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20015743-281.html?tag=cnet...

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