Are Red Light Cameras All That Bad?

YOu can get carry away sometimes and read multiple posts and not know where to start off at.

Did you see that MD is now fighting about the improper use and monitoring of the cameras. I hope they take many of them out. Gee AAA truck 57 MPH in park at a red light? You go to love these compines.

IOWA putting inmore cameras
Everyone wants to get in on the cash cow...
More cameras more money....
Big brother watching everything now
. .

IOWA putting inmore cameras
Everyone wants to get in on the cash cow...
More cameras more money....
Big brother watching everything now
. .

The camera is neither good or bad, it is just a tool. The good or evil is in the intent of the government officials and the business operating the camera.

There are undoubtedly sincere politicians who truly believe they are doing the right thing for public safety by installing cameras. Unfortunately, there is no shortage of politicians who see cameras as simply a new revenue source, or worse, an opportunity for person gain through graft and corruption.

They are only bad because they are not well regulated and the main objective for cities/towns is revenue in the name of safety. To me, lying is inexcusable. How many red light cameras do you think there would be if all the money collected when into a fund that the cities could not touch, or there was a maximum fine set and the city had to pay a few pennies above that fine for each citation. Answer: NONE. If they were honest about it, I would have no problem with them.

If the politicians got the message that they're jobs are at stake unless they run the program the right way technically, we wouldn't have the abuses that we have today.

The answer to the quandry is: send them the message.

Fred

This is it right there.

And when they start shortening the legally required time the light is supposed to be yellow, then these cameras are bad, bad, bad.

We all know red light cameras have nothing to do with safety and everything to do about revenue. And we all have seen what happens when the revenue falls.

The red light cameras add to the risk of accidents. I had a personal experience with this. Had to stop due to turning from yellow to red, and the dude behind me didn't. If it had not been a camera intersection, I would have gone through the yellow, but in this case didn't dare chance a ticket, so I ended up with a $3000 car repair.

I've been hearing more and more about these types of accidents.

I totally agree. The financial benefits do not go back to the community, and "safety" is really debatable excuse. Chicago is notorious for RLC, and yet I have not seen a single one near a school intersection or crosswalk for safety - rather they put them up near malls and poorly timed lights with long turning lane wait times during rush hour.

Some townships in the suburbs[of Chicago] put up RLC, only to retract them once new leaders are elected because they were only put in place for financial gains!

My vote, remove them all!

I think you are all forgetting that if people drove the way they are supposed to, then those rear end accidents would not happen.

I was sitting at a red traffic light on my scooter yesterday waiting for the light to turn green. It had already turned yellow when a driver well back of the yellow light came along with lots of time to stop. You could actually HEAR him stomping on the accelerator to go through what was now a red light.

Those idiots are everywhere and if they get nailed by a RLC I would love to see that!

This is the assistant police chief explaining

In another article the assistant chief explains that the motorist can schedule an interview with the issuing officer who may dismiss the citation or sustain it. Next the motorist has the option of proceeding to Municipal Court. The citation may be dismissed, but if found guilty, the motorist pays the fine and additional court costs.

..Sounds fair. Each RLC intersection has a Photo Enforcement sign.

The cameras are nothing more than a cash grab for governments and the fact that there are retarded police out there that abuse their power and act unprofessionally doesn't change that.

We need the cameras gone and the police held to a higher standard.

Will a police officer driving his own car off duty running a red light still get a ticket? Or is there some sort of opt-out system that still allows a police officer to claim privilege?

Good question!
I think they should all be removed.

...as an ex-LEO. YES!!!

California. LA Times discovered that LEO and other employees were exempt from RLC tickets.

If a cop stops you, then you get the ticket + 1 point on your driving records + insurance increase.

If you get a RLC ticket, you only need to pay the fine.

When you're reduced to justifying something by comparing it to something worse, you've already lost the argument.

Yes, but how each municipality implements them is probably why they are bad

Bad is bad, no matter how you try to spin it.

Are Red Light Cameras All That Bad?

Yes. Yes they are.

I think (not agree) that the original idea of the cameras (to stop drivers from going through red lights) was not a bad idea. But then all the local goverments found the cash cow and had to take advantage of it.
Now any time they need or want more money, they just add more cameras. One of the bad parts is they don't get a lot of the money, a big part goes to the company that installs them. So they just install more. It becomes a bad cycle (need more, add more)
Any time that many people get involved in generating funds there is the chance for fraud and corruption. [it is all about safety] the money is just a bonus.
If BS was gold they would be as rich as Midas!

Revenue generation...That's all it is.

I'd rather not have red light cameras. They are deterrents for some if they know they're there, but more often, there's a surprise flash, followed by a revenue-generating ticket. Now if they posted signs to let people know that an upcoming intersection was camera-monitored, then it would be a safety device.

Study: Distracted driving leads to millions of red-light violations

http://washingtonexaminer.com/study-distracted-driving-leads...

Among the posted statistics are the in DC alone over 91,500 people were cited for red light violations. Out of that number over 14,000 were distracted drivers with the largest percentage talking on their phones. (DC has a law against cell phone usage without a hands-free device.)

I lost the link to this but here is the body of the news article.

A growing number of Bay Area cities are opting out of their contracts with Redflex Holdings, an Australian-based company that provides red light camera technology.

Since March, Hayward, Redwood City and now Belmont have decided to put the brakes on red light cameras.

In Belmont, thousands of drivers were stuck with $480 tickets and there is no indication the streets were made any safer.

In Hayward, rear-ended accidents increased at intersections with cameras.

That makes sense since people hit their brakes without any concern for people behind them when they realize that they are about to be on candid camera. At least that's my experience here in Ohio.

We have one place here that have cameras at two consecutive intersections and the intersections are only about 100 yards apart. If you get busted at the first, you'll most likely get nailed at the second one also.

I was stopped at a red light on a divided highway in Florida, when an ambulance was approaching from rear. All the other lanes had several vehicles in line. So I eased through the red light to allow the ambulance through...The very next intersection had a RLC. I don't know what I would have done there.
A cop would never give me a ticket for that. A camera would.

the tapes are reviewed by a police officer, he would have seen what happened and stopped the ticket.

This is a good idea!! We should do the same with retirement accounts and solve all our problems.
Oh wait; we do. But that is full of IOU's instead of our money.

I'm not going to convert anyone here. I'm just going to divert my purchasing dollars from cities that have RLCs. Very simple:

1. Stop going to the restaurants, car dealers, department stores, the best you can. Use the Walmart and Home Depot in the next town over instead. Malls too.

2. Explain that you did so in yelp.com.

Then watch if the cities have the ballz to ignore outraged businesses.

It is unlikely that your individual citizen's uproar will sway a city away from the free cash. Besides, some citizens are actually in favor, thinking that it dilutes their other taxes, and that "they" will never get one.

But when the BUSINESSES get upset, because it costs THEM money - watch those cameras disappear.

Your individual efforts may not shut down the local mall. But collectively, perhaps. As long as you keep spreading the word to do this, they'll never know how much financial pain you're causing that city.

Remember, say so in your reviews in Yelp, Google,etc.

Cameras are neither bad nor good. They are all observing and are no different than if a policeman was sitting right there. How the city chooses to set up the yellow light time (this should be standard based on speed) and when a violation occurs (if you cross the line when light is red, you violated law)is most important.

Just don't run the light and there is no problem.

It's when you get a red light camera ticket even though you entered the intersection while yellow (or green) but because of the cars in front, you exit while red that makes RLCs unacceptable (or the lack of discretion in such matters)

Are the red light cameras still on in LA County?

It is my understanding that a red light ticket will be issued only if:
1) the vehicle entered the intersection after the light turned red.
2) the vehicle continued through the intersection with the light red.

There will usually be both a video and several photos showing the above.

Your scenario does not fit.

I am sure that - at some time in the past - there were a few specific cameras whose overall accident rates went up after their installation - but they would decidedly be outliers.

While I have seen reports of RLC statistics where the rear end collisions increased, I have never seen any where the overall accidents increased for a group of RLCs. If you want to stick with your claim, it would be helpful if you could provide some links to support your statement.

Over the years, opponents arguments against RLCs have been reduced to the claim that they are "revenue generators" - which, of course, they are. Revenue is generated from people who have broken the law.

If the light is yellow and you are over the Wide White Line, you are ticketed for running a red light.

If the light is yellow and you are over the Wide White Line, you are ticketed for running a red light.

I do not live in Texas so I am relying on laws and internet searches.

The applicable law is:
Sec. 544.007. TRAFFIC-CONTROL SIGNALS IN GENERAL. (a) A traffic-control signal displaying different colored lights or colored lighted arrows successively or in combination may display only green, yellow, or red and applies to operators of vehicles as provided by this section.
(b) An operator of a vehicle facing a circular green signal may proceed straight or turn right or left unless a sign prohibits the turn. The operator shall yield the right-of-way to other vehicles and to pedestrians lawfully in the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk when the signal is exhibited.
(c) An operator of a vehicle facing a green arrow signal, displayed alone or with another signal, may cautiously enter the intersection to move in the direction permitted by the arrow or other indication shown simultaneously. The operator shall yield the right-of-way to a pedestrian lawfully in an adjacent crosswalk and other traffic lawfully using the intersection.
(d) An operator of a vehicle facing only a steady red signal shall stop at a clearly marked stop line. In the absence of a stop line, the operator shall stop before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection. A vehicle that is not turning shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown. After stopping, standing until the intersection may be entered safely, and yielding right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully in an adjacent crosswalk and other traffic lawfully using the intersection, the operator may:
(1) turn right; or
(2) turn left, if the intersecting streets are both one-way streets and a left turn is permissible.
(e) An operator of a vehicle facing a steady yellow signal is warned by that signal that:
(1) movement authorized by a green signal is being terminated; or
(2) a red signal is to be given.
(f) The Texas Transportation Commission, a municipal authority, or the commissioners court of a county may prohibit within the entity's jurisdiction a turn by an operator of a vehicle facing a steady red signal by posting notice at the intersection that the turn is prohibited.
(g) This section applies to an official traffic-control signal placed and maintained at a place other than an intersection, except for a provision that by its nature cannot apply. A required stop shall be made at a sign or marking on the pavement indicating where the stop shall be made. In the absence of such a sign or marking, the stop shall be made at the signal.
(h) The obligations imposed by this section apply to an operator of a streetcar in the same manner they apply to the operator of a vehicle.
(i) An operator of a vehicle facing a traffic-control signal, other than a freeway entrance ramp control signal or a pedestrian hybrid beacon, that does not display an indication in any of the signal heads shall stop as provided by Section 544.010 as if the intersection had a stop sign.
(j) In this section:
(1) "Freeway entrance ramp control signal" means a traffic-control signal that controls the flow of traffic entering a freeway.
(2) "Pedestrian hybrid beacon" means a pedestrian-controlled traffic-control signal that displays different colored lights successively only when activated by a pedestrian.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995. Amended by Acts 2003, 78th Leg., ch. 1325, Sec. 19.04, eff. Sept. 1, 2003.
Amended by:
Acts 2011, 82nd Leg., R.S., Ch. 485 (H.B. 885), Sec. 1, eff. June 17, 2011.

I found this link

http://www.heraldbanner.com/opinion/x699581969/Basically-leg...

of a permissive and restrictive red light law. In a restrictive law, it is a violation to enter the intersection when the light is yellow. There are a few places that have restrictive laws, and fewer that rigidly enforce them.

In my opinion whoever wrote this law intended for yellow to mean "proceed with caution" but it did not turn out that way. It is ambiguous. Any judge could rule that "movement authorized by a green signal is being terminated" means that you cannot proceed on yellow.

dobs108

There are two problems with writing laws:
* First, intent doesn't count; and
* Second, everybody is an arm chair lawyer.

Legislators may start off with good intentions and a short, clearly worded statement. But then some know-it-all says "yeah, but what about..." and a bit of legalese gets added. This happens so many times that the end result looks nothing like the statement the legislators started out with.

Sadly, any time someone tries to enact some bullet-proof law, there are several hundred people that will try to circumvent it!

I did a bit more research looking for information from municipal governments in Texas detailing what constituted a red light violation. I found multiple sources, including your home town. All of these indicated that it was entering the intersection facing a red light (not a yellow) that constituted a violation.

http://www.txdot.gov/driver/laws/red-light/faqs.html

http://www.roundrocktexas.gov/home/index.asp?page=12&ispostb...

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e...

http://www.arlingtonpd.org/index.asp?nextpg=redlight/faqs.ht...

http://www.cityofirving.org/transportation/red_light_cameras...

http://www.cityofbalchsprings.com/DocumentCenter/Home/View/8...

http://www.cityofhumble.org/works.html

http://fortworthtexas.gov/uploadedFiles/Transportation_and_Public_Works/About_Us/Divisions/Traffic_Engineering/How%20Camera%20Works(2).pdf

http://www.jerseyvillage.info/Frequently%20Asked%20Questions...

Will looking for what I considered to be information from the municipalities, I did find anecdotal reports from individuals claiming that they had been ticketed by police officers for entering an intersection on yellow.

So, I was wondering if this had happened to you because the "offical" writings clearly limit the violation to entering on red.

…Red is not. Folks shouldn't speed up when approaching a Yellow light, but if they have time, slow down and stop if the light turns red before entering the intersection. That said, I frequently speed up.

Agreed.

Every time that I see this subject line pop up I just want to add " ... and isn't rape just a complimentary way to say that I think you're really sexy?"

I'm all for them.

Ugh! I feel that is a very poor analogy on way too many levels.